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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:15 pm 
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There's been plenty of suggestions that Williams started out with the most technologically-advanced car in the field but by the end of the season the rest of the top teams had stuck on the same features and Williams weren't bothering to develop anything new because the rules were about to change (CVT aside) and they'd won the championship. Certainly the McLaren's electronics were becoming much more reliable - that's one of the main reasons why Andretti's performances began to improve later in the season (this is a really good article on Andretti in particular: http://f1rejects.com/centrale/andretti/index.html). Up until that point, they did have a tendency to do weird unexpected things to the car, which Andretti now thinks is a big conspiracy but in his case was probably down to his lack of testing. Benetton were also making progress around this time as well

Hakkinen appearing probably also helped the team push on and gave Ayrton a bit of a nudge forward. Senna was 1.4 off pole at Monza, just under a second off the pace in Estoril, just a tenth off at Suzuka, and on pole in Adelaide 4 tenths ahead of Prost. That's quite a sharp upward trajectory, and Hakkinen wasn't far off him. From Donington to Estoril, Senna didn't qualify on the front row, but then managed it in the last two races. That's the sign of a rapidly improving car

You can put far too much down to the drivers in these circumstances. Senna would not have been able to make up a second a lap or more on his own, and a lack of motivation wouldn't have cost Prost that sort of time either. That can only be down to the car - the only exception being if the driver had crashed in qualifying and needed the spare car, which I've found can usually account for some big differences in pace


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:43 pm 
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That's all well and good (and some of it we'll need to agree to disagree on) but it's still not a comparable to Alonso and Ferrari.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:49 pm 
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phil1993 wrote:
I found out from a friend at ASI that Sky don't intend to cover testing live this year, but they will have Sky Sports News round-ups and Ted's Notebook each day.


there will be probably some 30-45 min show each test day to cover the "highlights" of it. With so much changing, Ted & Co will have tones of things to say of each team, each day.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:47 am 
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kals wrote:
That's all well and good (and some of it we'll need to agree to disagree on) but it's still not a comparable to Alonso and Ferrari.


I was the guy that brought up that comparison and just for clearing it up, I said "almost on par with Senna vs the Williams of 92/93". Key word: almost. ;)

However I have to point out one thing beyond all what James just said: back then we had a Prost way past his peak (he was past it by 89, nevermind by 93 after taking a year off) and a Hill thrown into a top seat out of nowhere with no experience, in the top team. Which exaggerated why Senna looked so ridiculously better than them in a much shittier car. Whereas for the past few years Alonso had to fight against one genuinely well rounded talent in the top seat - Vettel of course -, even if Vettel might only be reaching his very best now.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:33 am 
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noikeee wrote:
Key word: almost. ;)


Pah! No way. There is nothing similar to Alonso at Ferrari to Senna vs Williams in 92/93. Key word: nothing. ;)

Perhaps you can help by giving examples of why you think these two are in any way similar. :thumbsup:

And then... to say Prost was past his best? Not a chance. Prost in 1990 was mighty. In 1991 he was great on occasion but was limited by machinery. Prost in 1993 was awesome, maybe not as good as some of his previous years but by no means does that indicate he was past his best.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:30 am 
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I figure it's close enough to F1 to post here, but Niki Lauda was at the Golden Globes tonight, and he took off his hat on national TV. Didn't look as bad as I thought it would, tbh.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:22 am 
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kals wrote:
noikeee wrote:
Key word: almost. ;)


Pah! No way. There is nothing similar to Alonso at Ferrari to Senna vs Williams in 92/93. Key word: nothing. ;)

Perhaps you can help by giving examples of why you think these two are in any way similar. :thumbsup:

And then... to say Prost was past his best? Not a chance. Prost in 1990 was mighty. In 1991 he was great on occasion but was limited by machinery. Prost in 1993 was awesome, maybe not as good as some of his previous years but by no means does that indicate he was past his best.


Driver in a noticeably inferior car takes a surprising title challenge to driver in noticeably superior car... that's the similarity. I didn't really want to infer anything more than that because the circumstances otherwise are substantially different, car tech was completely different, driving styles as well - Senna was a hell of a lot flashier, Alonso more of a "accountant" just adding good points race per race, etc etc, you could find a million different things yes.

I think Prost had an odd good year in '90 yes (though notice there was little in speed between him and Mansell), but I was highly unimpressed by '93, by then Hill who was a total noob looked quicker by midseason. No wonder: Prost was now 38 years old and had been a year out of the sport... I believed he started losing his edge by '89, as seen by how much slower than Senna he suddenly was compared to the previous year. These things are not necessarily linear and Prost did gain back a bit of good form in '90, but by '93... I think it was absolutely clear the man was no longer the methodic speed machine he was at his best in the mid-80s.

I'm going mostly by memory, season reviews and articles, not necessarily 100% reliable impressions, I wasn't even born yet when Prost won his first title! :p

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:47 pm 
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In TV news, Gary Anderson is leaving the BBC.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:12 pm 
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Artur Craft wrote:
phil1993 wrote:
I found out from a friend at ASI that Sky don't intend to cover testing live this year, but they will have Sky Sports News round-ups and Ted's Notebook each day.


there will be probably some 30-45 min show each test day to cover the "highlights" of it. With so much changing, Ted & Co will have tones of things to say of each team, each day.
Its going to be the same as last year, a 15min show rounding up the news from the day followed by a 15-20min Ted Notebook.

Guessing there will also be regular updates on Sky Sports News.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:46 pm 
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EsbenT wrote:
Jonny wrote:
NVirkkula wrote:
Jonny, can you provide the Motorsport magazine's list here?


Sorry but It was just a quick look at it in a store. What I do remember is -

20 Peter Collins
10 Nigel Mansell
1 Gilles Villeneuve

On reflection, if we're talking about 'pure' Ferrari drivers then GV is my number 1 but Peter Collins would be higher than 20th. Alesi would have to be high on the list too. Drivers that epitomise Ferrari. I would also go Pre-Formula One and include Guy Moll.

Subscriber here; I'll see what I can do :thumbsup:

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http://www.sendspace.com/file/p4z3b5

Please excuse the newspaper article on the first page. I'm making fun of a friend of mine who is a journalist in my local newspaper, and I forgot that I was scanning everything to the same document :p


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:18 pm 
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noikeee wrote:
Driver in a noticeably inferior car takes a surprising title challenge to driver in noticeably superior car... that's the similarity. I didn't really want to infer anything more than that because the circumstances otherwise are substantially different, car tech was completely different, driving styles as well - Senna was a hell of a lot flashier, Alonso more of a "accountant" just adding good points race per race, etc etc, you could find a million different things yes.


I get what you're saying noikee, it makes perfect sense. I was looking at it a slightly different way, believing (wrongly) you were trying to put Alonso on a pedastal. :thumbsup:

Perhaps if I can offer a slightly different comparison... Instead of Senna vs Williams in 92/93, maybe it should be Schumi vs Williams in 97?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:01 pm 
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EsbenT wrote:
EsbenT wrote:
Subscriber here; I'll see what I can do :thumbsup:

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http://www.sendspace.com/file/p4z3b5

Please excuse the newspaper article on the first page. I'm making fun of a friend of mine who is a journalist in my local newspaper, and I forgot that I was scanning everything to the same document :p



Thanks for sharing, Esben!


How ever, that list is just utter rubbish. We've already talked about Schumacher's position and Villeneuve and Alonso. But where the hell is Kimi Räikkönen? You know, Ferrari's last champion? He's way better than Massa and should be on the list one spot higher than Alonso somewhere around 10th spot.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:20 pm 
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EsbenT wrote:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/p4z3b5

Please excuse the newspaper article on the first page. I'm making fun of a friend of mine who is a journalist in my local newspaper, and I forgot that I was scanning everything to the same document :p


Marvelous

I just missed the dynamic duo Alesi/Berger

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:31 pm 
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Some media reporting that John Button, Jenson's father, has passed away following a heart attack :(

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:59 pm 
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I also heard it. Very sad, he was a well known face :(


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:01 pm 
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he was also a great guy, always happy and smiley on the races, Jenson had a great father rip

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:11 pm 
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wow, shocking really. RIP.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:22 pm 
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F1 people seem devastated by this. That says a lot


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:23 pm 
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Awful news. RIP John Button. :(

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:27 pm 
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Oh crap :( He was a nice guy, i met him in Monza 2010. Its sad to hear that RIP


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