TBK-Light.com

Motorsport videos and chat.
It is currently Fri May 03, 2024 4:29 am

All times are UTC+01:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 800 posts ]  Go to page Previous 118 19 20 21 2240 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:56 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:39 pm
Posts: 15445
Has thanked: 408 times
Been thanked: 1658 times
Ian-S wrote:
James B's got it right, nobody has the right to know what's going on


Did I have a name change? :p

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk


Top
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:59 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:51 pm
Posts: 8057
Has thanked: 1465 times
Been thanked: 428 times
And you too :lol:
The problem is the families perceived right to blanket privacy, like I said, once you're a public figure, you are always a public figure whether you like it or not. By exercising that right, they've been really naive to think the press would leave them alone, when/if he dies things will be different, but all the time he is alive, people outside the family will want to know. Where do you draw the line between family and fan? Is Massa family? nope, am I family? nope, but Massa got in to see him....


Top
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:59 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:58 pm
Posts: 3936
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 101 times
Massa is a personal friend, though...

From a pure legal point of view, fans wishes, interest on the matter and regards means nothing. Nobody has the right(strictly speaking) to have any info about his state, bar his family.

Parts of the media will obviously go to fill that void of informantion, as there is a good amount of people wanting to know about it, and try get info, no matter what, or just play the speculation game

If I were from his family I would just start sueing every media's opportunist trying to take a byte out of this


Top
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:50 am 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:24 pm
Posts: 3642
Location: Too busy shooting to stop for a dump!
Has thanked: 114 times
Been thanked: 47 times
Ian-S wrote:

I was once told by an irritating Scotsman (you know who)

Aww come on, Ellis ain't that bad!

_________________
I think you should do what you want.

It's your forum and I paid the bills this year.. :p :p

and if people don't like it they shouldComplain here


Top
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:13 am 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:51 pm
Posts: 8057
Has thanked: 1465 times
Been thanked: 428 times
haha not him ;)


Top
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:17 pm 
Offline
Silver Member
Silver Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:23 am
Posts: 1339
Has thanked: 48 times
Been thanked: 137 times
fact is, in a strange way, we live in a sort of extended family. Many of us have more news about, let's say, Michael schumacher the F1 driver than their uncle that they see once a year at christmas. So, even if it's just an illusion because they let you see what they want you to see, they became part of your world and i think it than become normal to feel involved in their lives even if they dont know you exist. I've met the man in flesh and bones one or two times, for about 5 seconds each, but if it's the case i would feel to go to his funeral more than i would for many of my parents that i don't even phone call to. So in the end i think it's normal for people to have a desire to know it's condition.


Top
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:31 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:39 pm
Posts: 15445
Has thanked: 408 times
Been thanked: 1658 times
Public figure or not, Michael and his family have one responsibility and that is to themselves. Whether anyone likes it or not that is the reality.

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk


Top
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:31 pm 
Offline
German Touring Car Series #1 Fan
German Touring Car Series #1 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 12:00 am
Posts: 4957
Has thanked: 86 times
Been thanked: 202 times
That's a really bleak, pessimistic view to take on that. People don't exist in isolation


Top
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:38 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:39 pm
Posts: 15445
Has thanked: 408 times
Been thanked: 1658 times
That's no pessimistic, not sure how you're coming to that conclusion. Neither am I sure how you're assuming from my comment that I'm suggesting people live in isolation.

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk


Top
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:45 pm 
Offline
German Touring Car Series #1 Fan
German Touring Car Series #1 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 12:00 am
Posts: 4957
Has thanked: 86 times
Been thanked: 202 times
Because suggesting someone only has responsibility to themselves and their close family leaves no room for having concern from others outside of that, which is completely oblivious to the fact that thousands of people care about Michael and will be left devastated if/when he dies. Essentially saying the Schumachers shouldn't care about that is an incredibly bleak statement to make - obviously they have their own interests to care for, but that shouldn't mean they should exclude everyone else entirely

As has been suggested in this thread already, it feels like the Schumacher family is almost pretending that Michael isn't a public figure any more. That's clearly not true, because if he wasn't, we wouldn't be talking about this here. He's a public figure until he dies - you can't erase all the fame, wealth and achievements. The same goes for anyone else of that level of fame - when you're a global figure, your role as a public figure doesn't end when you stop doing what you do for a living, and it's incredibly naive to suggest otherwise, especially when you're still doing TV interviews, advertising campaigns and the like


Top
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:04 pm 
Offline
Bronze Member
Bronze Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:33 pm
Posts: 971
Location: GUFYSAH
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 25 times
Fighting for the own life is the most private thing you can imagine!


Top
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:09 pm 
Offline
Founder of the Yaytree
Founder of the Yaytree
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 28113
Location: Birmingham, UK (Not near DEGA :( )
Has thanked: 1288 times
Been thanked: 1867 times
I don't know what the point of posting in this thread any more....

There's hardly any news bar the worst kind of rumour mongering so we're locked in a vicious circle of decrying the source of the rumours, wondering if there's more credible sources out there, complaining that there's no news coming out of the hospital then other explaining why that's none of our businesses and a people with a family member in a coma don't owe anything except doing their best to be there for said coma patient.

Rinse and repeat for 16 pages.

Get well soon Michael, I really hope that's possible despite all the negative signs.

Whatever happens, good or bad, I doubt I'll hear the news from this thread anyway, so on the absence of anything concrete.
I'm out.

_________________
RIP Birmingham Wheels: here's some of the crash videos I recorded when it was there:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIaKIE ... 5t9d5PvoHA

Twitter:

http://www.twitter.com/paulhadsley


Top
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:38 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:39 pm
Posts: 15445
Has thanked: 408 times
Been thanked: 1658 times
James B wrote:
Because suggesting someone only has responsibility to themselves and their close family leaves no room for having concern from others outside of that, which is completely oblivious to the fact that thousands of people care about Michael and will be left devastated if/when he dies. Essentially saying the Schumachers shouldn't care about that is an incredibly bleak statement to make - obviously they have their own interests to care for, but that shouldn't mean they should exclude everyone else entirely

As has been suggested in this thread already, it feels like the Schumacher family is almost pretending that Michael isn't a public figure any more. That's clearly not true, because if he wasn't, we wouldn't be talking about this here. He's a public figure until he dies - you can't erase all the fame, wealth and achievements. The same goes for anyone else of that level of fame - when you're a global figure, your role as a public figure doesn't end when you stop doing what you do for a living, and it's incredibly naive to suggest otherwise, especially when you're still doing TV interviews, advertising campaigns and the like


You make a very good case. Yes people care, no-one is doubting that, but I still disagree that means Michael and his family should enrich people with information on his condition and recovery when the only responsibility they have right now are to themselves. That will change as his recovery continues. At this time they deserve solidarity. When the time is right they will come forward.

That's what I believe any way.

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk


Top
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:25 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:51 pm
Posts: 8057
Has thanked: 1465 times
Been thanked: 428 times
Yes they deserve privacy, nobody is asking for his son or wife to come out front of the hospital and give a play by play analysis of their daily routine, people just want a periodic update that's from an official source that gives a rough idea of his progress, if there's no progress, say there's no progress. After all, that's the very reason Michael still employes the services of his manager, long after he's retired from racing, to handle all that "publicity shit" (as it was once described to me) that the family want no part of.

I strongly suspect that if the family had had their way when the accident happened, the world wouldn't even know Michael was in hospital. To me it seems like they don't want to face or accept what has happened, you know "if we don't send out any information then we won't have to deal with the reality of what's going on" type mentality, I've seen it before with family members refusing to tell friends of someone who's died that they've died, yet the friend is probably more involved with the person who died than the family ever were.

On the flip side, and I could understand this, but perhaps they don't want the Hospital carpark becoming a makeshift vigil for him.

When my mum was dying, I phoned her friends to tell them what was happening, I didn't have to do that, because it was "my right to privacy" but I knew these people had known my mum for much longer than I had and they deserved to know, it was much better than them reading it in the paper a week later, that's what I mean, yes they have the right to privacy, and no nobody is asking them to give up that right, just get someone to give a bit of info as an when needed to those people outside his immediate family who care about him as much as they do.

...and I hate to say it, but their only responsibility right now is to decide when/if to turn off his life support machine (unless of course he had a living will, in which case even that isn't their decision to make, that's assuming he is on one, something nobody knows because the family refuse to give out any info...), after that it becomes about them, but right now it's about what's best for Michael.

I can see what's going to happen, something goes on (he dies etc.), Bild break it, within hours it's all around the world, they deny it, the headlines still run, the carpark fills up with more reporters, then a few hours later have to acknowledge it's true, they then get their nickers in a twist over it and make it all about them and how their privacy was invaded etc. etc. All of which could be avoided by having a structured, official source of information.


Top
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:01 am 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:39 pm
Posts: 15445
Has thanked: 408 times
Been thanked: 1658 times
I though Massa had confirmed recently that's he's awake and doing ok?

I agree with your point Ian. But. I dispute the need for the information (if there is any at all) to the world audience. When they are ready then it will come. It's an unusual way to deal with things I agree, but it's their choice whether we agree or not. I could continue but I realise I am in the minority and as has already been pointed out, we're going around in circles with this discussion.

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk


Top
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:12 am 
Offline
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:25 pm
Posts: 24642
Location: Guildford, UK
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 709 times
kals wrote:
I though Massa had confirmed recently that's he's awake and doing ok?


Felipe Massa wrote:
He's sleeping and I was very positive because he was normal. He looks normal and he also gave some reactions with the mouth and everything.


http://www.crash.net/f1/news/200425/1/m ... visit.html

_________________
Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.


Top
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:10 am 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:51 pm
Posts: 8057
Has thanked: 1465 times
Been thanked: 428 times
kals wrote:
I though Massa had confirmed recently that's he's awake and doing ok?

I agree with your point Ian. But. I dispute the need for the information (if there is any at all) to the world audience. When they are ready then it will come. It's an unusual way to deal with things I agree, but it's their choice whether we agree or not. I could continue but I realise I am in the minority and as has already been pointed out, we're going around in circles with this discussion.


Yeah, we'll just agree to disagree :) I can see your point too, I just think MS is a little more than an everyday Joe Bloggs, who nobody outside of their direct family would care about.

Re what Massa said, I took that to mean he really was asleep and he didn't want to wake him, still sedated, or in a vegetative state (not sedated but not awake), I would assume the finer details of what he meant have got lost in translation somewhere, and I tend to think that, had MS woken up properly, we'd have heard about it officially.

I really hate to say it, but a dead person looks "normal", unless you know what you're looking for (obviously, someone that's died naturally or is brain dead, not someone that's walked in front of a train). I really really hope he pulls though, especially for his son's sake, and I know I sound really pessimistic, I'm not I'm just being realistic based on the limited info that's come out from his manager.


Top
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:37 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:24 pm
Posts: 3642
Location: Too busy shooting to stop for a dump!
Has thanked: 114 times
Been thanked: 47 times
Some bits from: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorsport/ ... z2ucEECJ8f

Has a bit more detail from the actual accident from the rescue team

Quote:
Grenoble, France: The hubbub of jostling reporters and television crews is a memory now, nearly two months after the helicopter carrying Michael Schumacher, the most successful Grand Prix racing driver in history, landed at University Hospital Centre in this old Roman city after travelling from a rocky snow slope at the Meribel ski resort 80 kilometres away.

Outside the nine-storey hospital, with a panoramic view towards the snow-covered Alps, the news media scrum has disappeared. Only a solitary, weather-stained banner remains to indicate that Schumacher is still a patient, deeply comatose and in critical condition, in the fifth-floor neurological intensive care unit.


After eight weeks, if there's no sign of waking, what most people would do is unplug.

“Schumi,” the banner outside the hospital says in bold scarlet letters, using the driver's nickname and the colour associated with the Ferrari team, with which he won most of his laurels: a record seven driver's championships and 91 Grand Prix wins. “All our thoughts for you and your family.”

In part, the reporters' disappearance from the hospital's grounds has been a response to appeals by Schumacher's wife, Corinna, to spare the family further intrusion into their privacy as they maintain their bedside vigil. But the news media's absence tells another, more melancholy story, too.

Attention has moved on, with Schumacher becoming only the latest, if one of the best-known, additions to the sobering roll call of those who have fallen into the oblivion - for weeks, months or even years - of long-term comas after suffering traumatic head injuries while engaging in potentially hazardous recreational sports.

Doctors in Grenoble, the gateway to France's best-known skiing resorts, say that hundreds of injured skiers have arrived at the hospital with concussions and more serious head injuries in recent years. Some of them occupy beds near Schumacher's.

The outlook for Schumacher, 45, has been obscured by the decision of his doctors and his family not to give regular updates on his progress. But what is known seems increasingly dispiriting, at least for his prospects of achieving a complete mental and physical recovery, or even of escaping long-term impairment.

His injuries prompted two operations in his first 36 hours at the hospital to remove blood clots from his brain, and a statement by his doctors after the second operation said scans had revealed multiple clots in deeper areas of the brain that were not accessible to surgery. Those deep clots, medical experts say, pose the most serious threat to Schumacher's recovery, and perhaps to his survival.

Unable to remove them, the Grenoble doctors moved more than three weeks ago to a new and critical phase of treatment - an effort to bring Schumacher out of the medically induced coma in which he has lain since he arrived on December 29.

Since that treatment began, the only medical updates have been unofficial and anonymously sourced reports in German newspapers and magazines.

Those reports prompted a new statement by Sabine Kehm, Schumacher's spokeswoman, who said on Monday that the process of lifting the coma remained “unchanged". That was not in itself a denial of the German reports that the attempt to revive him had failed, as experts have said that temporary suspension of the waking process is common in such cases.

In addition, “repeated partial awakening, reassessment and re-sedation” are common, given the complexity of the process, according to Headway, a British brain injury charity.

While cautious because of the lack of detailed information coming from the doctors in Grenoble, other experts were generally pessimistic.

“If they're not releasing good news because there is none, then that's very bad news indeed,” said Gary Hartstein, a US anaesthesiologist based in Liege, Belgium, who worked for eight years until 2012 as head of Formula One's medical unit.

“After eight weeks, if there's no sign of waking, what most people would do is unplug,” he added.

Others were more sanguine.

“A couple of weeks after you stop sedatives it's too early to say that somebody is in a persistent vegetative state,” said David K. Menon, a Cambridge University specialist who heads the anaesthesia division at Cambridge Neuroscience, a research institute noted for its work on traumatic brain injuries. “But the more time you take to wake up, the less the probability that you'll have the sort of recovery you'd hope for.”

One potentially remedial step taken by the family was to invite Schumacher's long-term teammate at Ferrari, the Brazilian Felipe Massa, to sit with Schumacher, talking of common experiences in F1 and of developments in the cars for the new season, which begins March 16 in Melbourne. Massa, who survived a severe head injury when a heavy spring from another car broke loose in Hungary in 2009 and struck his helmet at more than 320kmh, said that he had spent “a long time” with his friend.

“I told him everything, about my car, my new team,” Massa said, referring to his shift from Ferrari to the British Williams team. “I told him to wake up many times.”

At Meribel, skiers continue to flock to the slope where Schumacher, skiing with his 14-year-old son, Mick, had his accident, about 2100 metres up the Saulire mountain, which overlooks the town. Meribel's slopes were used for the women's skiing events in the 1992 Winter Olympics, and complaints then, particularly in the downhill, were that the high-altitude descents were too steep.

But members of the ski rescue team at the top of the mountain, at a station known as Dent de Burgin - the unit that responded to the Schumacher accident, summoning the helicopter that took him to Grenoble - said there had been barely 400 skiing injuries of all kinds among visitors who bought more than 1.3 million day passes for the Meribel slopes last year.

As for Schumacher, they said, he had avoided the most perilous descent, which has an 85 per cent incline at one point. Instead he took a gentler, wind-around route to a lower slope where, for reasons that remain unexplained, he chose to cross between two heavily travelled pistes, or trails. That took him across an area of ungroomed snowfield strewn with rocks, whose perimeter is marked with red-painted poles.

Under regulations set by the Meribel authorities, off-piste areas like the one Schumacher entered generally carry no warning signs, and there were none where Schumacher fell. One of the rescue team members, Philippe Merlin, said an overnight snowfall had left a deep overlay of fresh, uncompacted snow that covered most of the rocks, but allowed Schumacher's skis to sink as much as 30 centimetres beneath the surface.

A French police investigation that was formally closed last week, drawing in part from videotape retrieved from Schumacher's helmet-mounted camera, found that the initial impact had occurred just over one metre from the piste and that Schumacher had been catapulted over the tips of his skis into a headfirst impact with another rock 10 metres farther on that caused his helmet to split. Police ruled that there had been no negligence or other error, by Meribel or Schumacher, that required further criminal investigation.

That conclusion met with broad support among skiers on the Saulire runs, many of whom said they were satisfied with Meribel's safety arrangements. Merlin, of the rescue team, who has skied the mountain for more than 40 years, said that Schumacher, who owns a chalet nearby, was known on the slopes as a good skier and that what he had done in crossing the rocky area was not unusual.

“It's quite normal,” he said. “But he was unlucky.”

_________________
I think you should do what you want.

It's your forum and I paid the bills this year.. :p :p

and if people don't like it they shouldComplain here


Top
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:59 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:58 am
Posts: 3381
Location: Bruges, Belgium, Joined Mon May 12, 2003 5:27 pm
Has thanked: 65 times
Been thanked: 77 times
Thanks for that read.

The outcome does not look good. 2 month's and still no change...


Top
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:50 pm 
Offline
German Touring Car Series #1 Fan
German Touring Car Series #1 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 12:00 am
Posts: 4957
Has thanked: 86 times
Been thanked: 202 times
Conflicting reports today - read what you want

Negative: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motors ... e-him.html

Positive: http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/03/m ... n-english/


Top
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 800 posts ]  Go to page Previous 118 19 20 21 2240 Next

All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited