2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread

gkmotorsport · PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:04 am

Ian-S wrote:

Nothing different to being hit by a wheel in the face, so it's a moot point. My only concern would be pieces being deflected down into the cockpit, it'd only take one reasonably small but correctly shaped piece of carbon fibre to deflect down into someone's chest for the concept to be a disaster (a piece that would otherwise have just bounced off the drivers helmet without Halo).

I thought the Halo was to be a steel tube (like in the video) wrapped in carbon fibre? not just fibre on it's own.

Fair point - the team who designed it seem pretty confident that the risk is minimal, based on what was outlined in the video, but it's a detail that shouldn't be ignored. IIRC there were concerns about wheel tethers stretching and bringing wheels into cockpit range, but thankfully that doesn't seem to have happened. There are also definitely still voices expressing concern about the current low noses being able to let a car submarine under the one in front, bringing the rear crash structure to the cockpit. Ironically (because it hasn't been mentioned), Halo should solve this one!

I could well be wrong, but my understanding is that the finished article will be carbon fibre alone - the existing crash structures (including the roll hoop) don't use any metal. The roll hoop is tested under 9 tonnes and can only deform by 25mm, so I would expect something similar here.

gkmotorsport · PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:30 am

webbsy wrote:

So haven't the FIA said that teams are able to alter the HALO aerodynamically? During the Hungarian GP Sky F1 UK said they are able to have little aero bits up to 2cm in length, like the serrated teeth on the front of the Merc's cockpit to aid in air flow for the engine etc.

So if that is allowed....then the pressing safety item isn't actually uniform across the board, and each team can tailor it to their aero needs? Also more stupid ugly winglets and aero bits??

The tech regs for 2018 haven't been updated to account for the Halo yet, or at least they haven't published them for us plebs. The system seems to necessitate a set clearance between the inside edge and the helmet, so I would think any 'tolerances' for aero bits would stop there.

More stupid ugly winglets are probably a given, though

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:09 pm

RtN wrote:

Clearly bored in the MTC.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13124 ... -in-woking

I can reliably inform you that turn 11 would be...interesting. In the Chinese sense.

turn 2 and 12 are on the same roundabout, very tight and appropriate for pile ups

Coldtyre · PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:58 pm

Amazing how times have changed, I now see the 1998 McLaren in photo and think how slick and appendage-free it looks. Which it was certainly not, compared to late 80s/early 90s cars.

Ian-S wrote:

Also when was the last time a wheel tether broke?

Not trying to spark up the HALO discussion again, but do they have tethers on rear wheels as well?

Because if so, I'd say the last one was Perez' mild shunt during this year's Azerbaijan free practice, his rear wheel was cut clean off the car.

Ian-S · PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:23 pm

It was a genuine question, I couldn't remember.

Gaara · PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:24 pm

Yeaa the tethers are on all wheels. But even then there's only so much a tether can take.

NVirkkula · PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:20 pm

Coldtyre wrote:

Amazing how times have changed, I now see the 1998 McLaren in photo and think how slick and appendage-free it looks. Which it was certainly not, compared to late 80s/early 90s cars.

Ian-S wrote:

Also when was the last time a wheel tether broke?

Not trying to spark up the HALO discussion again, but do they have tethers on rear wheels as well?

Because if so, I'd say the last one was Perez' mild shunt during this year's Azerbaijan free practice, his rear wheel was cut clean off the car.

Well, technically the wheel hub broke off the suspension together with the drive shaft, wheel still attached to it. The tethers hold the remains of the hub, brake parts included. Had another car came to the scene in the worst possible moment, with or without Halo, there wouldn't be any difference in the out come.

Gaara wrote:

Yeaa the tethers are on all wheels. But even then there's only so much a tether can take.

As long as they are not knot down together. Can't remember any other accidents than Monza 2000 and Melbourne 2001 where an F1 wheel was a lethal projectile. Maybe it has something to do with enormous run off areas and difficult to follow another car closely enough to go on the same path with big parts that come off another car? Maybe if someone was really close to Trulli in 2004 British GP, then maybe that might have turned out different. But then again, following another car through Bridge was nearly impossible back then and it would be even more difficult now. Also, F1 cars manouver and stop quite fast, so once the car in front is out of control, the other can usually react and avoid. I don't remember other chain reaction accidents than Spa 1998 and Monza 2000 in F1 where tires were flying around.

webbsy · PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:29 am

Suzuka 2001 with Kimi and Alesi's accident. Wheels went flying everywhere, went back into the middle of the track.

I kinda feel that this is one of the "forgotten" monstrous shunts in F1. The hit that Kimi took was massive.

Omega · PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:13 am

What about Brazil 2003, where alonso crashed onto a wheel from webbers jaguar.

My only two cents about the entire halo discussion: how many lethal accidents have happened (in F1) since the death of Senna? One. How many accidents with severe head injuries? One. Would halo have had a positive influence? Doubt it.

F1 is safer than ever, in the past 25 years they have done so many improvements, with halo it feels like they don't know what more they can do and have to invent things to cover that last 0.01% of risk.

gkmotorsport · PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:22 am

Omega wrote:

My only two cents about the entire halo discussion: how many lethal accidents have happened (in F1) since the death of Senna? One. How many accidents with severe head injuries? One. Would halo have had a positive influence? Doubt it.

You didn't watch the video, did you? They analysed a whole bunch of accidents where Halo could have affected the outcome, and 13 of them were from the last decade of F1. The outcome was actually quite different to what you have concluded.

Omega wrote:

F1 is safer than ever, in the past 25 years they have done so many improvements, with halo it feels like they don't know what more they can do and have to invent things to cover that last 0.01% of risk.

Tbh this kind of "I haven't looked at the available information but here's what I have decided" attitude is getting a little old - it's not just this post, and it certainly isn't just F1, it's just people in general.

A bunch of people have been researching these accidents since 2011, have effectively put their professional reputation behind this device, held a press conference explaining at length why this or that is the way it is, and a significant portion of the F1 community is just "Nah mate it won't do anything though".

mclaren2008 · PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:56 am

webbsy wrote:

Suzuka 2001 with Kimi and Alesi's accident. Wheels went flying everywhere, went back into the middle of the track.

I kinda feel that this is one of the "forgotten" monstrous shunts in F1. The hit that Kimi took was massive.

Suzuka has had some massive crashes over the years :8:

Omega · PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:10 am

gkmotorsport wrote:

Omega wrote:

My only two cents about the entire halo discussion: how many lethal accidents have happened (in F1) since the death of Senna? One. How many accidents with severe head injuries? One. Would halo have had a positive influence? Doubt it.

You didn't watch the video, did you? They analysed a whole bunch of accidents where Halo could have affected the outcome, and 13 of them were from the last decade of F1. The outcome was actually quite different to what you have concluded.

Omega wrote:

F1 is safer than ever, in the past 25 years they have done so many improvements, with halo it feels like they don't know what more they can do and have to invent things to cover that last 0.01% of risk.

Tbh this kind of "I haven't looked at the available information but here's what I have decided" attitude is getting a little old - it's not just this post, and it certainly isn't just F1, it's just people in general.

A bunch of people have been researching these accidents since 2011, have effectively put their professional reputation behind this device, held a press conference explaining at length why this or that is the way it is, and a significant portion of the F1 community is just "Nah mate it won't do anything though".

To summarize: I don't give a fuck.

iks · PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:52 pm

Cool article and video from Karun Chandhok driving and comparing a 1992 Williams and a 2017 Williams.

http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints/it ... imitstart=

Quote:

"The 2017 car... everything feels filtered. That's the best way I can describe it. None of the sensations feel pure. Everything comes through a computer – the throttle, the brakes, the steering – everything feels like it's coming through some sort of filter before you feel it in your body. That's what the modern cars are like.
"You contrast that with the car from '92, and although the technology at the time was extraordinary, with the active suspension, launch control, traction control, all of these things that were completely revolutionary at the time, it still doesn't have power steering, it still doesn't have fly-by-wire throttle. It's a cable throttle; you have to blip on the down-change. You're feeling vibrations through the engine. All of that stuff that you can feel is totally different to a current car. You feel everything much more purely and unfiltered. That's what comes to mind, is how pure it feels in contrast to the modern cars."

trout · PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:00 am

iks wrote:

Cool article and video from Karun Chandhok driving and comparing a 1992 Williams and a 2017 Williams.

http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints/it ... imitstart=

Quote:

"The 2017 car... everything feels filtered. That's the best way I can describe it. None of the sensations feel pure. Everything comes through a computer – the throttle, the brakes, the steering – everything feels like it's coming through some sort of filter before you feel it in your body. That's what the modern cars are like.
"You contrast that with the car from '92, and although the technology at the time was extraordinary, with the active suspension, launch control, traction control, all of these things that were completely revolutionary at the time, it still doesn't have power steering, it still doesn't have fly-by-wire throttle. It's a cable throttle; you have to blip on the down-change. You're feeling vibrations through the engine. All of that stuff that you can feel is totally different to a current car. You feel everything much more purely and unfiltered. That's what comes to mind, is how pure it feels in contrast to the modern cars."

i just drove a 2017 bmw 5 series and would never trade it for my 87 3 series for this exact reason. when it comes to driving "feel" there's no comparison

Coldtyre · PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:11 am

mclaren2008 wrote:

Suzuka has had some massive crashes over the years :8:

That's a proper racetrack for you. Safety can be debated year round, but in the end, the same track would be insipid if you removed the scenery, the elevation changes, the barriers and just painted it on a parking lot. Even though it would technically be the same track and require about the same driving skills to lap around faster than everybody else.

Ok maybe Suzuka is a bad example because there would be a crossroad at the bridge. I'd just give right of way to people going down towards 130R (those exiting Degner can stop easier to let others through).

mclaren2008 · PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:11 am

I remember the 2009 qualifying session with multiple crashes and red flags.

For sure its a track that rewards bravery and punishes mistakes. That's why its my favourite track on the calendar.

mclaren2008 · PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:42 am

Kimi staying with Ferrari for 2018

JJ · PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:53 am

Good for Kimi. He was once again quick enough in European races to get a a new contract. Now he can relax and show strong performances as usual in the later part of the season. Then next year he will struggle again the first 7 races.
Kimi's career has become one big deja-vu.

Omega · PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:09 pm

JJ wrote:

Good for Kimi. He was once again quick enough in European races to get a a new contract. Now he can relax and show strong performances as usual in the later part of the season. Then next year he will struggle again the first 7 races.
Kimi's career has become one big deja-vu.

Kimi usually struggles the first 7 races, the last 7 races, and has some good results around the time when contract talks are being held.

Mika Kimi · PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:29 pm

Happy for him, but he's becoming the new Barrichello.

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2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread

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