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And even worse, there is a culture of not punishing it.

The driver won't see much of it as the hoop is higher, in line with the top of the helmet, and the vertical stalk would be like one of those aerials that most F1 cars have (see them in some of the F1 games), which your eyes focus past.

I can see where you come from, but this argument cannot be used to push for additional measures infinitely. No matter what people thought about helmets (or high headrests, or roll-hoops) as they were introduced, those were necessary for the following reasons:

- To protect drivers in daily low-speed crash occurrences on the track,
- To keep up with the increasing cornering speed of the cars.

Here, we are talking about a measure introduced to prevent against abnormally high-energy, one-in-a-million freak accidents, in a racing series that has matured in terms of speed, and has increasingly safer tracks.

That's where the worry is for some fans. The FIA is well past the point of simply keeping up with the times, and are deep into active, deliberate and constant effort to remove any semblance of risk from the activity as a motorsport. Actual measures that make sense are welcomed by the community, nobody in their mind has criticised the removal of gravel traps around fast corners like Eau-Rouge, because those were death-traps and turned regular spin-outs in fatalities. But at the exit of slow hairpins? That kills a part of what the sport was about. It's the obnoxious, over-the-top measures that make us cringe, not the sensible ones.

And quite frankly, in any case Formula One as a whole looks less and less like a motorsport, and more like an asepticized financial and marketing showcase activity for rich glamour corporations. And obnoxious, toxic safety measures on cars and tracks are just one small part of the problem.

I get what you're saying coldtyre, you make a lot of sense. However my point was really pointed towards the immensely negative reaction from some people on this forum and other places. It's as if the world has come to an end, they have vowed never to watch F1 again. These people need to get a grip (not you coldtyre). F1 is introducing a measure which will reduce the likelihood of freak accidents. Let's remember that raised cockpit sides were introduced after a couple of freak accidents in 1994, the halo is no different.

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http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

There's also the point about what makes each championship unique.

I'm willing to bet that the first time this roll hoop causes problems in a rollover accident t (and it will) the fia won't back down and say "well we made a mistake and we'll take them off", more likely "that rollover was caused by wheel to wheel contact let's cover the wheels and add more head protection"

Then what seperates an f1 car from a sportscar? The casual fan will be confused what is f1 and what is wec and the uniqueness of each championship is lost

There's more to this than just the safety concerns, it's the gradual erosion of each series identity.

Look at indycar and their b.s. wheel covers, from the rear that car looks like a sports car not an open wheeler!

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RIP Birmingham Wheels: here's some of the crash videos I recorded when it was there:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIaKIE ... 5t9d5PvoHA

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indycars doesn't look like sportscars, they just look silly



and even more worser, punishing moves that aren't up for punishment

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Motorsports trend for 2024: climate change ruining races everywhere

Are there any drivers complaining about this? Usually every F1 generation has that bunch of grumpy old folks that will mock any novelty, and especially safety features, but the "older" guys nowadays are pretty tame in comparison.

To be honest this "negativity" is often plain joking. It's merely coloring your writing by using hyperbole, like "Boo! F1 should die off because of X". Of course the kind of protection the drivers have is totally insignificant racing-wise.

It is just worrying that for the FIA there seems to be no limit of when F1 is considered "safe enough". Because there are always risks that can be decreased, the FIA has potentially an endless task. But no one stops to think whether it is worthwhile?

In the past (for example the 60's) the risk of serious accident was very likely. Any crash could be a fatal one. The safety improvements (seat belt etc.) of this era were justifiable, because they increased the safety dramatically: death risk per season 0.01 -> 0.0001 (note, these are hypothetical numbers). HANS was also clever and significant improvement, no doubt about that.

Now, with halo or canopy they are only fixing the low decimal digits. Is it worthwhile to do dramatic changes to the sport if a risk is changed from 0.000003 to 0.000002?

The FIA will not stop developing new safety features, otherwise they would look lazy and stupid from the public point of view. They have to keep their image of doing state-of-the-art safety planning. Unfortunately, they're probably doing more harm than good for motorsport.

I think this halo thing will be like the high cockpit sides were 20 years ago, Something that people bitch about beforehand & list a dozen drawbacks but which ultimately everyone will just get used to with 1-2 years & it will just become normal.

This.


No one wants to see what happened to Bianchi. But the real issue was stupid, stupid regulating by the race direction at the moment. They were afraid of the dark and red flag farce that would follow because of it. Then the media and fans would be making a big noise for how stupid the FIA is and they'd had to make some excuses. They didn't want the red flag farce so they pushed the envelope. "F1 is safe enough", they thought. "What's the worst thing that could happen? Let's keep the track green, there's only one car in the barriers. Tractor will pick it up in no time and we'll finish this one under green."

You want to avoid Bianchi situation? Open up the rule book, don't put damn tractors on a live race course! Mandate a safety car for those situations so that the race director can't play God with drivers' lives! That's what killed Bianchi together with the culture of not slowing down on yellows and ignorance to that by the race control.

Indycars might look stupid with their rear fenders, but there's a good reason for that. Too many times a car up in the fencing. Vegas 2011 was the last straw. Yes you could also blame pack racing or the design flaw of how oval tracks and fencing are bad for fast open-wheelers, but instead of killing those things they chose the smaller devil. The FIA is washing their hands clean of Bianchi's death with the stupid halo-ring.

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"Indy doesn't give you a second chance. You have to earn it."

The SC is an annoying procedure but when its needed, use it. Don't take a chance not putting it out because of not wanting to change the race, or some other reason. Germany 2014 was a good example: Sutil parked in the middle of the track and no SC, maybe they didn't want Hamilton closing up and having a chance at the win, who knows.

Suzuka should have been an SC, who knows why they didn't put it out.

You can never stop freak accidents, but I don't really understand why everyone is so against offering more protection to a driver's head. I don't know if the halo is the right answer, but I'm sure we would get used to whatever gets used.

The argument that I've seen is 'what happens when a car rolls over and catches fire, and the driver is stuck?' That's a freak accident that you can't account for. However, how many times has that happened in open wheel racing recently? Far less than drivers being hit, or very nearly hit by debris, I would guess. In the top series, marshals would likely get any fire under control very quickly as well. We see a lot more debris now because of the way the parts are designed to shatter in an accident. I don't have a problem with a bit more cockpit protection.

For me, it's the circuits that are too forgiving. I'm all for the safest cars possible, though.

I also think that Virtual SC is great, and should be used whenever a marshal has to enter the circuit. (Full SC for bigger incidents).

I'd be semi-ok with the halo device if they used proper excuses for it to justify it.
Including bianchi's crash is just laughable. It wouldn't help.
Frankly including Bianchi is just trying to shift the blame away from themselves for not releasing the safety car.

Don't put the blame on the FIA for these measures, the drivers are asking for it.

Japan was one of those times that would have suited the VSC perfectly. The marshals dealt with Sutils car in quick fashion and we'd have only had a couple of laps under VSC instead of waiting for everyone to close up behind the SC and then waste a few laps. I don't know why so many are against the VSC.

VSC kills randomness on races, while SC bunch everyone up, specially when someone faster is behind and create more action

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Motorsports trend for 2024: climate change ruining races everywhere

Yeah, F1 just has stupid SC rules with all the delta times, pits closed/open, lapped cars may pass complexity that it makes safety car periods always nearly a ten lap long. There's no short SC unless everyone is on the same lap or it's a race start from behind the SC. VSC is BS because it tries to hide the fact that F1 has too complicated SC rules. And that's quite ironic because VSC is a complicated answer to a question and not at all a constructive solution at the same time. So FIA is kinda like politics who try to avoid actually doing anything but gives a comment that's actually totally pointless. Almost like this post. And Chilton's F1 career. Where's my beer?

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"Indy doesn't give you a second chance. You have to earn it."

better red flag the race and do another start procedure with aggregate time like in the good ol times

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Motorsports trend for 2024: climate change ruining races everywhere

You're insane! That solution is too simple! We need much more complex solutions that covers up the inconvenient facts that racing is becoming as boring as baseball![/FIA]

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"Indy doesn't give you a second chance. You have to earn it."

Motorsport fans in general, particularly those from the sportscar section, have such a boner for racing purism it borderlines on the obsessive.

Race fans have to get over the fact that sometimes life is just unfair.
You can be doing your best and everything seems to be going your way then sheer dumb misfortune takes it all away from you

Motorsport can never be pure, not as long as theirs traffic, accidents, weather, pit stops and any other myriad of factors than can rob a driver of a race.

The sc is a symptom of this. It's the safest way of dealing with an incident while still keeping the race running.
The fact it makes the races more exciting is a side effect we can all deal with.

Now we're in a in era that wants a slightly less safe and a lot more boring system in the name of purism.
Words fail me.

Motorsport isn't fair, get over it.

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RIP Birmingham Wheels: here's some of the crash videos I recorded when it was there:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIaKIE ... 5t9d5PvoHA

Twitter:

http://www.twitter.com/paulhadsley