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Brake failure there and you're fucked, gravel slows you down, this tarmac won't when you go in straigth

We should start an initiative. I don't know, a logo, a slogan, spread it throughout the community, other boards, to the tracks, the fia. If they don't want to hear the fans, we have to make them hear us.

You watch, the Italian Grand Prix will probably be one of the more interesting races of the year and no one will even care about the tarmac run off.

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"Well we've got this ridiculous situation where we're all sitting by the start-finish line waiting for a winner to come past and we don't seem to be getting one!" James Hunt - Monaco 1982

We should try something like Occupy Wall Street whereby we all go to Monza, all sit together in one section of the circuit (I suggest a grandstand) and then spend the GP weekend singing, cheering and waving banners.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
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Not only among the drivers. We're going back to the state of mind before Imola 1994. Back then everyone thought F1 was save and no-one would get killed ever again.

The tarmac runoff at parabolica was apparently done for the bikes at the request of FIM/Dorna after a meeting between them & the Monza owners in January:
http://www.worldsbk.com/en/news/2014/FI ... t+at+Monza

I read something not long ago in which it was pointed out that changes like this are not just done for F1 & are not always proposed by the FIA. Many different categories race on these circuits & the safety of each has to be considered with each series organizer/Governing body putting forward proposals to barriers/runoff's etc... to make things better for there category.

I’ve read many times in the past that the bike racers prefer tarmac runoff because if they come off there bike its much safer sliding across the tarmac scrubbing off speed than it is to hit gravel & which often results in them & bike tumbling about.

Still sucks. One of the few places where mistakes are made at this track and one of the few where it can drastically alter a driver's race.

Yeah but people will ignore the actual benefits for the sake of a moan. I personally don't like tarmac over gravel traps, but like you Scotty I do get why they've become more prominent over the past 10-15 years. Gravel / sand is an old and outdated technology which carries inherent risks. It is like complaining that leather caps and goggles are better than helmets, because they represent a greater challenge to the driver.

The only times tarmac doesn't work is as Rubens Barrichello said in 2000 or 2001 when the first gravel trap was replaced by tarmac, when the belly of the car hits the ground through a puncture, suspension failure (and such like) or if oil gets on the tyres then tarmac is pretty ineffective.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
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Tarmac is fine...if you have a strip of grass on the edge of the road so they don't just drive over it like a car park. DTM was so lazy with policing this that they gave up at LM Bugatti circuit and drivers completely ignored the chicane and straight lined it.

I saw someone post something recently talking about how tarmac runoff at Blanchmont in 2001 would have resulted in Burti's accident been far less severe than it was with the Grass & Gravel that was there back then.

The reason put forward was that when he hit the gravel it broke the front suspension on both sides which in turn damaged both brake lines & took away his steering so there wasn't much speed loss & he had no control over the angle of impact.
With tarmac he's have retained steering & braking so would have lost more speed & may have been able to have some affect on the angle of impact which would have made it a less severe accident & likely wouldn't have ended his F1 career.

And not to forget what happened at Dijon.

I suppose the risk with having the ribbon of grass between track and tarmac run off is the transition, that in certain cases in can act like a launch pad and / or damage the car.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

It's not a matter of gravel or tarmac being saver than the other. It's a matter of having a false sense of safety.
Go look at some crashes of the 80's and early 90's. More than once the commentator is saying F1 is more safe than ever and that "back in the old days" the driver would have not survived.

I don't like that state of mind because racing will never ever be 100% safe as long as there is physically a person in the vicinity of the car.

I don't want to see deaths or injuries but I also don't want to see knee-jerk reactions when it does go wrong. Because those reactions aren't always the right one's.
And with false-sense of safety you get knee-jerk reactions.

we must bless the current safety in F1 but at the same time not forget the sport is not clear of its dangers.

The Paul Ricard version of tarmac is interesting to me, in that they reportedly have sections with tungsten in the pavement that are designed to maximize grip. Which in theory would keep the safety benefits of tarmac while not allowing drivers to use the runoff as a car park (at least without destroying their tires, that is).

(Aesthetically the bright colored stripes of Paul Ricard are pretty ugly to me though. )

I think deep down people know the safety and logistics reasons (tarmac also makes it easier for safety vehicles to recover cars) But I think people are tired of seeing cars go off due to a massive mistake, driving across the tarmac, and rejoining the circuit as if nothing happened.

In the wet its useless though so I often wonder if that's why wet races are becoming sc laden non-events because technically these tracks are more dangerous in wet conditions.

Meh....I guess we'll have to get over it eventually. Or turn up at racetracks with our own gravel pallettes before the entire world championship becomes the "formula 1 grand prix of 2 white lines painted on a mass swarthe of tarmac" series

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Paul Ricard is horriffic to watch on TV. Maybe it's partly the colour scheme, maybe it's partly the layout, but it's easily the worst track in the world to watch races on IMO. I don't doubt the high grip tarmac is excellent at what it does, but it's just so awful to watch. I love Blancpain. I've watched all the races this year from start to finish..except for Ricard, where I stopped an hour in.

Paul Ricard is easily the worst track for races on TV, fully agree I think it's the different configuration-possibilities (I think they still do that?) that make it look as if cars are driving on a gigantic parking lot.

Will the tarmac run off be safer at Parabolica? Yes

Will I have the same sentiment and adrenalineboost when watching those cars close to each other at Parabolica? No

Monza was that track, even when nothing happened, it was great to see those cars coming out of Parabolica, flirting with the white line/grass to obtain maximum speed for the straight, and knowing that any mistake, any marginal centimeter putting your wheel on the gras will result in a spin / crash / end of race / at least lose some time. And even when that didn't happen during the race (in F1 it usually didn't), it was just that 'it could be'.

Lower formula races are often great to watch, as they go into and out of Parabolica 2-3 wide. And often incidents.

But will it be safer? Yes

Will it be safer if maximum speed of F1 would be reduced to 100 kph? Yes

there should a way to punish off track driving or just put the 2m wide gravel stripe, wouldn't they don't get this clear?

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actually at that point you're about 320/330, a brake failure there would probably make you float over gravel and you're fucked anyway. plus if you have a warwick/diniz type of crash there's more chance you'll suffer big damages on gravel than on tarmac

I think tarmac runoffs would be more acceptable if it had some sort of penalty for whoever runs wide.

With gravel you slow down immensely, most likely damage something on the car and ruin the tyres for a few laps. With Tarmac sometimes the only penalty is giving back the spot you won.