2014 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix, March 28-30

Gaara · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:22 pm

De Cesaris fan wrote:

On the subject of Massa, there's a simple solution.

Let Bottas through to have a go at Button.
If he passes Button, great, more points for the team..
If he can't, let Felipe back through on the final corner.

The result probably stays the same, and Massa comes across as a good team player. Instead, he makes himself look like a bit of a dick.

It's not like the team were asking Massa to move over because Bottas is their hope for the title and they want him to have the maximum points. It's nothing like the Alonso incident, where they were battling for a win with no other cars ahead of them. It was the logical thing to ask at that point of the race, and I'm sure Felipe would have been given the same treatment if he was the one catching Bottas and Button. (I think the team even told Bottas not to challenge Felipe at one point during the race? Hardly being biased are they?)

Williams are saying that's what they had in mind, if Bottas failed then he'd have let Massa back past.

webbsy · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:38 pm

De Cesaris fan wrote:

And a 10 place penalty for an unsafe release? I hate this penalty culture in F1. The team messed up. Dan realised and stopped. It cost them massively in the race. Why slap another penalty on top of that?

These little things are going to happen during the pressure of a pit stop. Giving stupid penalties won't stop tyres falling off and people getting hurt in the pits. It's a dangerous place.

Completly this. An unsafe release to me is more in line with releasing a car into the path of another driver and crashing into them. Failing to attach a wheel(although yes I know it is unsafe) is more of releasing the car before the pit stop is finished (stating the obvious haha). To me these are two different things that require two different punishments.

Releasing the car and making contact with another car I believe would warrant the carry over penalty, but a situation like yesterday for Dan, a penalty after moving a set distance after release, say 3 car lengths, the stop go penalty would be justifiable.

aerogi · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:48 pm

De Cesaris fan wrote:

And a 10 place penalty for an unsafe release? I hate this penalty culture in F1. The team messed up. Dan realised and stopped. It cost them massively in the race. Why slap another penalty on top of that?

I think you are partly right. Immediately after the release you see Ricciardo realises the front wheel is loose, I was surprised he didn't stop immediately then at that point, they had to get the car back quite a way back in the pitlane.

Penalties are severe, but a car should NOT get released in the pitlane if not all 4 wheels are attached. A loose wheel can cause real big drama's. If th only way they will learn is the hard way, so be it.

And I don't understand how the lollipopman, whose ONLY job is to see if all teams are ready, can release the car too early.

Reece · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Gaara wrote:

De Cesaris fan wrote:

On the subject of Massa, there's a simple solution.

Let Bottas through to have a go at Button.
If he passes Button, great, more points for the team..
If he can't, let Felipe back through on the final corner.

The result probably stays the same, and Massa comes across as a good team player. Instead, he makes himself look like a bit of a dick.

It's not like the team were asking Massa to move over because Bottas is their hope for the title and they want him to have the maximum points. It's nothing like the Alonso incident, where they were battling for a win with no other cars ahead of them. It was the logical thing to ask at that point of the race, and I'm sure Felipe would have been given the same treatment if he was the one catching Bottas and Button. (I think the team even told Bottas not to challenge Felipe at one point during the race? Hardly being biased are they?)

Williams are saying that's what they had in mind, if Bottas failed then he'd have let Massa back past.

And people believe that? Please.

kals · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:14 pm

Phil1993 will be happy with what I'm about to say next.... Will Buxton went up in my estimation this past weekend.

Will interviewed Bernie on the state of F1, concerning the engine noise and there reactions from fans, teams and Ron Walker. As we know Bernie has changed his mind on how he feels about the engines. Will was pressing Bernie on being responsible (among others) for creating a positive image of F1 and the engine sounds for fans to get behind and put more people in the stands / more people watching races on TV. Bernie dodged questions throughout the interview, attempting to shift responsibility on to other people, etc... standard Bernie stuff but Will kept pressing. A good interview by Will, I just hope he's not getting his credentials revoked as a consequence.

Oh and by the way, the interview was done live during one of the practice sessions and the commentary team then went about discussing it at length. Yet during the race yesterday they'd obviously forgotten as the spent a great deal of time talking about how much Bernie loathed the sound the engines make. Give me strength.

gkmotorsport · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:46 pm

aerogi wrote:

De Cesaris fan wrote:

And a 10 place penalty for an unsafe release? I hate this penalty culture in F1. The team messed up. Dan realised and stopped. It cost them massively in the race. Why slap another penalty on top of that?

I think you are partly right. Immediately after the release you see Ricciardo realises the front wheel is loose, I was surprised he didn't stop immediately then at that point, they had to get the car back quite a way back in the pitlane.

Penalties are severe, but a car should NOT get released in the pitlane if not all 4 wheels are attached. A loose wheel can cause real big drama's. If th only way they will learn is the hard way, so be it.

And I don't understand how the lollipopman, whose ONLY job is to see if all teams are ready, can release the car too early.

Most teams now use lights instead of a lollipop man - I think RBR control theirs from the pit wall, for example. If you look at a replay of his stop, several mechanics on that side of the car turn to wave at the wall almost immediately. I'm surprised they didn't tell him to park immediately, tbh.

That said, I'm not surprised with the penalty - didn't he retire before serving the stop/go?

Gaara · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:49 pm

I think so. He'd have had the time added on at the end of the race but couldn't because he'd retired.

Reece · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:28 pm

I thought he did serve the stop and go. He's listed as 6 stop including retirement, think the 5th was the S&G.

Gaara · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:38 pm

Fifth was his retirement, at least of Forix it shows five stops. The snafu happened on his third and final while the fourth was the wing change and before he was given the penalty I believe.

Edit: No you're correct, he did serve a stop and go. Maybe because a loose wheel can injure someone they are being tough on them.

NVirkkula · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:43 pm

Reece wrote:

Ohh wow, the amount of bad luck that kid had which has been absolutely no doing of his own...

2nd place to DSQ not his fault
Wheel not on properly not his fault
wing failure not his fault
10 sec penalty for release not his fault
10 spot grid penalty for Bahrain not his fault.

In 2 bloody races!

I bet that he qualifies around 4th - 6th in Bahrain and will start the race from the middle of Crashjean, Crashtor, Perez and Gutierrez due the penalty. He's then collected by one of those hot shots on lap one. :slaphead:

alex1369 · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:00 pm

The 2nd RedBull is really jinxed. No wonder Webber left or had enough. Always trouble with the 2nd car. But No1 car no touble..
I know you make your own luck but still makes you wonder

BrainPain · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:04 pm

Everybody seems to forget that Vettel's car broke down in Australia lol.

Mika Kimi · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:05 pm

Vettel retired in Melbourne.

Don't know if this discussion has already taken place (haven't read everything in this topic) but how do you guys reckon Magnussen's penalty?

To be fair, if I look at the onboard, I don't think he's to blame in this incident (race incident IMO).

If I had to blame one of the two drivers (which I don't) then it would even be Raikkonen.

Fabs · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:06 pm

Onto Bahrain and more shitty racing :8:

StanV · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:06 pm

BrainPain wrote:

Everybody seems to forget that Vettel's car broke down in Australia lol.

That was obviously Vettel's own fault, because he's shit.

kals · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:13 pm

StanV wrote:

BrainPain wrote:

Everybody seems to forget that Vettel's car broke down in Australia lol.

That was obviously Vettel's own fault, because he's shit.

That was the ghost of Mark Webber haunting him in Melbourne, clearly.

Schumifan · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:16 pm

Fabs wrote:

Onto Bahrain and more shitty racing :8:

bahRAIN

micha · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:18 pm

Reece wrote:

Gaara wrote:

De Cesaris fan wrote:

On the subject of Massa, there's a simple solution.

Let Bottas through to have a go at Button.
If he passes Button, great, more points for the team..
If he can't, let Felipe back through on the final corner.

The result probably stays the same, and Massa comes across as a good team player. Instead, he makes himself look like a bit of a dick.

It's not like the team were asking Massa to move over because Bottas is their hope for the title and they want him to have the maximum points. It's nothing like the Alonso incident, where they were battling for a win with no other cars ahead of them. It was the logical thing to ask at that point of the race, and I'm sure Felipe would have been given the same treatment if he was the one catching Bottas and Button. (I think the team even told Bottas not to challenge Felipe at one point during the race? Hardly being biased are they?)

Williams are saying that's what they had in mind, if Bottas failed then he'd have let Massa back past.

And people believe that? Please.

again, we will never know because Massa acted like a spoiled brat.

StanV · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:20 pm

De Cesaris fan wrote:

(I think the team even told Bottas not to challenge Felipe at one point during the race? Hardly being biased are they?)

Yes, Massa was heavily questioning the fact that Bottas was attacking him, over the radio.

kals · PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:20 pm

There was a time when one driver who was struggling to pass the driver ahead, gave up his position to his team-mate to see if they could get ahead of the driver in front. No team instructions, just intelligence about the race ahead and totally unselfish. For example, Monza 1991 with Mansell, Patrese and Senna.

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2014 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix, March 28-30

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