2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

Karan · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:41 pm

It was definitely Horner. Rocky always refers to him as Sebastian on the radio anyway. It was just a brief little message like "Come on Seb that's silly...".

ellis · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:42 pm

Ah ok. I thought it was Rocky but seems I was wrong.

Schumifan · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:44 pm

Hotdogger wrote:

Philthy82 wrote:

IT'S NOT ABOUT WHETHER YOU LIKE TEAM ORDERS. The point is if one driver is told to slow by the team and the other ignores those orders, it's neither respectful to your team nor particularly hard to beat your teammate who's been told to slow up. That's about as ballsy, gritty and "killer instinct" as bringing a gun to a knife fight.

Agreed. If Vettel had told his team, 'No, I won't follow this order' and Webber was aware of that, I could somewhat respect Vettel for this so called killer instinct that his fanboys are chanting on about. But to pounce on Webber when he was under the impression that they were holding position basically makes it pure back stabbing and hardly something to be commended for.

I'm one of the people who mentioned killer instinct so I assume you're referring to me - first of all, I'm not a fanboy in the slightest. I'm just stating my opinion. Secondly, I'm not saying it's fair, moral, sportsmanlike or anything like that either, because it's not. What I am saying is that it's the kind of move that differentiates drivers like Vettel and Webber - he knew exactly what he was doing at the time (whatever he said afterwards) and he knew he'd wind Webber up and get away with it. It shows, like many of the most successful F1 drivers before him, that he'll do anything if it means walking away with more points. That kind of thing pisses off a lot of people, but I admire it.

Honestly, I like Webber. I like the fact that he's usually honest and straightforward. But this is F1, not gentleman's club racing, and when you've got guys like Vettel/Alonso/Hamilton out there there's not much room left for the nice guys.

NVirkkula · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:46 pm

LucasWheldon wrote:

ellis wrote:

So...does everybody think that Webber turned his engine down, and was completely unable to fight Seb, then continued with his engine down? If he didn't put his all into fighting back then he's an idiot who doesn't deserve the win.

perhaps he's more into securing his job than going for victory

but maybe he is starting to have second thoughts about it

Someone already mentioned that when a F1 driver eases off, he might not be able to find the rhytm back again that fast, the car would behave differently, the tires would be cooler...etc. Had Webber maintained his pace, Vettel might not have been able to catch him without wearing out his tires in the process.

I'm starting to think that Red Bull played US, the fans and the media. The plan was always to let Vettel win in 1-2, but what kind of headlines would that have made? It would have been yet another Red Bull dominated race with the regular strategy, no big deal. Now they made it WAY more interesting with on track battle and the ice cold post race appearance. I know, it's a long shot, but they knew the radios are monitored and everyone can see them before the podium. Or maybe they just are that "silly".

Regiotap · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:01 pm

Webber did his best lap after his 4th stop. If he slowed down, turned the engine back, he wouldn't set his fastest lap at that moment.

Karan · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:09 pm

I recall that tv caption also said that Seb set the fastest lap of the race, the lap right before he started to attack Mark on the main straight. So much for turning down the wick eh lol.

BrainPain · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:16 pm

Regiotap wrote:

Webber did his best lap after his 4th stop. If he slowed down, turned the engine back, he wouldn't set his fastest lap at that moment.

With fresh tyres, and with a low fuel load? Why wouldn't he be able to make a couple of fast laps before turning down the engine? This proves absolutely nothing.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:42 pm

Karan wrote:

I recall that tv caption also said that Seb set the fastest lap of the race, the lap right before he started to attack Mark on the main straight. So much for turning down the wick eh lol.

I think that prompted the "come on Seb this is silly" message as we hear them with a big delay after they're checked for swearing etc and it was broadcast almost immediately after the overtake...

nea wrote:

Karan wrote:

Massa doing this to Alonso would bring on hilarity of epic proportions I imagine purely because no one would ever see it comig. Place would explode for sure and I imagine the drama within the team would surpass even that at Red Bull right now.

I think the in-team drama would only be so massive because Ferrari have been a definite number 1 and number 2 driver team for longer than Red Bull have been a team at all (since 1996 when Schuey joined).

Would people regard it as a dick move a vilify Massa for doing so? Or would people congratulate him on doing it because people dislike Alonso for being ruthless (let's not forget, he has form for equally ruthless behaviour)?

Just IMAGINE, (say a wet race where the constructors title is up for grabs but the drivers title has been settled ) that Massa is leading Alonso and the team tell them to both back off and save their cars, yet Alonso disobeys and takes it from Massa...

This forum would need extra bandwith for the shitstorm that would happen :lol:

a7b7u · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:52 pm

Schumifan wrote:

Honestly, I like Webber. I like the fact that he's usually honest and straightforward. But this is F1, not gentleman's club racing, and when you've got guys like Vettel/Alonso/Hamilton out there there's not much room left for the nice guys.

May I ask. When have Hamilton or Ayrton Senna, who was also mentioned as example of the ruthless racing driver, ever done something comparable? Comparable in this case means, fooling your own team and creating a false impression of ceasefire in order to overtake your teammate, who otherwise would have beaten you straight and fair on the track.

Mixing up other top drivers names with Vettel, who never did something comparable, in that context is not a fair argumentation in my view.

Ferrari · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:00 pm

I shit you not.....

John Watson: Red Bull should give Vettel one-race suspension.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1 ... en-1783903

Vassago · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:04 pm

kals wrote:

It is not a killer instict. It is a ruthless streak that typically only the very best have. See Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Piquet, etc...

Webber is hardly the next Prost and all the remaining drivers had strictly #1 status written into their contracts so they would never be challenged by their teammates. Your logic is wrong on all accounts.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:09 pm

Well, yeah if they wanna hand the title to Alonso

It's an interesting dilemma tho. They gave him a clear instruction and he disobeyed it, but how do you reprimand him?
Fine is pointless, he's rich. Anything competitive will hurt the team in the title race too...

Do you just wait until he's leading with Mark 1-2 then order him to let Mark win?
Do you expect him to listen to that? You'd need to turn down his engine and not Mark's for that to happen...

kals · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:13 pm

Vassago wrote:

kals wrote:

It is not a killer instict. It is a ruthless streak that typically only the very best have. See Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Piquet, etc...

Webber is hardly the next Prost and all the remaining drivers had strictly #1 status written into their contracts so they would never be challenged by their teammates. Your logic is wrong on all accounts.

Huh? At what point am I making references between Webber and Prost??? You're criticism is wrong on all accounts.

Vassago · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:16 pm

kals wrote:

Vassago wrote:

kals wrote:

It is not a killer instict. It is a ruthless streak that typically only the very best have. See Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Piquet, etc...

Webber is hardly the next Prost and all the remaining drivers had strictly #1 status written into their contracts so they would never be challenged by their teammates. Your logic is wrong on all accounts.

Huh? At what point am I making references between Webber and Prost??? You're criticism is wrong on all accounts.

Senna's most ruthless streak and reputation occured when his teammate was Prost. De Angelis and Dumfries are similar to Bourdais back in Vettel's Toro Rosso days. Hence my Webber vs Prost teammate comparison.

aerogi · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:18 pm

codename_47 wrote:

Well, yeah if they wanna hand the title to Alonso

It's an interesting dilemma tho. They gave him a clear instruction and he disobeyed it, but how do you reprimand him?
Fine is pointless, he's rich. Anything competitive will hurt the team in the title race too...

Do you just wait until he's leading with Mark 1-2 then order him to let Mark win?
Do you expect him to listen to that? You'd need to turn down his engine and not Mark's for that to happen...

if they are 1-2, with a clear lead before the rest, they can ask vettel to move for Webber.

Or they can ruin his last pit stop to do so.

kals · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:22 pm

Vassago wrote:

Senna's most ruthless streak and reputation occured when his teammate was Prost. De Angelis and Dumfries are similar to Bourdais back in Vettel's Toro Rosso days. Hence my Webber vs Prost teammate comparison.

Well while I agree with you, those aspects are irrelevant to the point. Which is that Vettel showed a ruthless side. As an example, remember that Senna was ruthless (in his racing) with other people that weren't his team mate. Same with Schumacher, same with Piquet, same with many others...

Vassago · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:24 pm

kals wrote:

Vassago wrote:

Senna's most ruthless streak and reputation occured when his teammate was Prost. De Angelis and Dumfries are similar to Bourdais back in Vettel's Toro Rosso days. Hence my Webber vs Prost teammate comparison.

Well while I agree with you, those aspects are irrelevant to the point. Which is that Vettel showed a ruthless side. As an example, remember that Senna was also ruthless (in his racing) with other people that weren't his team mate.

How Vettel races other teams' drivers or how Senna raced them is also irrelevant to the point :wave:

kals · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:24 pm

No it isn't.

Vassago · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:26 pm

Why not? We're talking about relations between teammates not between one driver and the rest of the grid.

kals · PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:28 pm

Are we? I'm not, and I'm not sure where I was in my post. I'm making a point about a driver showing a ruthless side. So I'm not sure what you're attempting to prove by arguing something that is totally irrelevant to the point I made.

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2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

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