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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:57 pm 
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Something that should be said again - McLarens pit stop when they changed the steering wheel for Lewis was just amazing. Brilliant stop.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:58 pm 
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ellis wrote:
Something that should be said again - McLarens pit stop when they changed the steering wheel for Lewis was just amazing. Brilliant stop.


Indeed!

I still can't believe that they haven't won the title since 1998 - and with Perez there next year I can't see them ending that record soon.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:58 pm 
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It is clear that Red Bull updates work better than ones Ferrari are trying. With car, or without a car, i just can,t imagine on what position Ferrari would be without Alonso. Legend in making.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:59 pm 
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phil1993 wrote:
carfan20 wrote:
when a car is this dominant, it will be good in any track, stop kidding yourself


Vettel is world class, Alonso is world class.

What I can't stand is the constant bitching from Alonso fans to undermine Vettel and say it's totally Newey. F1 is a team sport. Always has been, always will be. The cars play a major part. Alonso is one of the best ever drivers, as is Vettel (and he is 5 years younger than Alonso to boot, so has huge potential).

You don't win 26 races by having just a great car. If people believe Vettel isn't worthy of titles and wins, then they're watching the wrong sport.


I can't blame Alonso's fans when Alonso himself is doing the same thing.

Where the Pied Piper leads, the minions will follow.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:59 pm 
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NextDimensional- wrote:
It is clear that Red Bull updates work better than ones Ferrari are trying. With car, or without a car, i just can,t imagine on what position Ferrari would be without Alonso. Legend in making.


Absolutely, Alonso is a fantastic racing driver. It's a pleasure to watch him.

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Oh dear. Webber walks off from the FIA press conference as talk is dominated by Vettel and Alonso...

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:16 pm 
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ellis wrote:
Could argue Senna was the same. I'd like to see someone argue that Senna wasn't that good either.


Senna won races in almost of every year of his career and only had the best car from 1988 to 1990.

As long as it is the Pole - Early lead - no fight scheme, that is simply not enough to be praised as remarkable F1 champion even if he wins 100 races in that style. If Vettle claims a race win or a even a title by fighting down opponents wheel to wheel, I will be the first to shut the fuck up and respect that just like I'm respecting Alonso although I don't like him and Ferrari.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:18 pm 
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Vettel qualifies high up, so he rarely has to fight back. When he has qualified low down, he's fought back. Brazil 2009 he went from 15th to 5th in the race. Or what about Belgium 2011 and Italy 2011 when he pulled off a couple of great passes. Spain 2011 when he nailed three guys in one lap and then later in the race made sure he nailed the last turn every lap so that Hamilton didn't overtake him?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:29 pm 
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I was really impressed with Vettel at Barcelona this year. Sixth, but still.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:35 pm 
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phil1993 wrote:
Vettel qualifies high up, so he rarely has to fight back. When he has qualified low down, he's fought back. Brazil 2009 he went from 15th to 5th in the race. Or what about Belgium 2011 and Italy 2011 when he pulled off a couple of great passes. Spain 2011 when he nailed three guys in one lap and then later in the race made sure he nailed the last turn every lap so that Hamilton didn't overtake him?


when your car is 2s or more faster per lap, that's an easy thing to do.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:37 pm 
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Oh dear. Webber walks off from the FIA press conference as talk is dominated by Vettel and Alonso...


if he (webber) hadn't been a sissy in turn 1 at the start, then journalist wouldn't be ignoring him. the slave had 1 job to do and that was to take points away from fernando, he even failed to do that, and they say massa is shit.

finally webber makes a good start, and he goes ballless about it, wish he had started like that at korea.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:39 pm 
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RtN wrote:
phil1993 wrote:
carfan20 wrote:
when a car is this dominant, it will be good in any track, stop kidding yourself


Vettel is world class, Alonso is world class.

What I can't stand is the constant bitching from Alonso fans to undermine Vettel and say it's totally Newey. F1 is a team sport. Always has been, always will be. The cars play a major part. Alonso is one of the best ever drivers, as is Vettel (and he is 5 years younger than Alonso to boot, so has huge potential).

You don't win 26 races by having just a great car. If people believe Vettel isn't worthy of titles and wins, then they're watching the wrong sport.


I can't blame Alonso's fans when Alonso himself is doing the same thing.

Where the Pied Piper leads, the minions will follow.


The funny thing is that all the Alonso Fans started the bitching about its totally Newey and not Vettel just after Alonso mentioned it. Before that I never saw someone here who said it.It was said that it is not so hard to win in the best car but the Newey Theory is just funny.

So why won Michael Schumacher his 7 Titles? Because Ross Brawn was on his side or what?

Haters gonna hate.....with no Arguments :wave:


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:41 pm 
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carfan20 wrote:
phil1993 wrote:
Vettel qualifies high up, so he rarely has to fight back. When he has qualified low down, he's fought back. Brazil 2009 he went from 15th to 5th in the race. Or what about Belgium 2011 and Italy 2011 when he pulled off a couple of great passes. Spain 2011 when he nailed three guys in one lap and then later in the race made sure he nailed the last turn every lap so that Hamilton didn't overtake him?


when your car is 2s or more faster per lap, that's an easy thing to do.


lmao 2 seconds. You're actually just making it up now.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:45 pm 
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nightflight wrote:
carfan20 wrote:
then webber moans when he is tell he is red bull aussie bitch, why do u back off at turn 1, are u a winner or a redbull slave, grow some aussie balls jeez


:lol:


One thing comes in my mind when I see your whining:


You feeling probably the same :lol: :lol: :lol: :p


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:49 pm 
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Good thing I stayed in my bed :)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:04 pm 
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ellis wrote:
On paper that race was pretty good. Lots of battles etc. But somehow I didn't really get into it. I like parts of this track, but meh.


Same. It's been argued to death, but I find DRS to be a free pass. It's better than the processions we used to have, but a middle ground is needed. Say, cars that can follow each other closely + Kers + Pirelli tires. I had always hoped that DRS would just be a stop gap whilst they found a way to make the cars race each other. I guess that was wishful thinking. Hello ground effect, mushroom busters...

Oh, and the big wide track with miles of run off and smoggy grey skies doesn't really help either.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:06 pm 
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phil1993 wrote:
Vettel qualifies high up, so he rarely has to fight back. When he has qualified low down, he's fought back.


Qualifying high means good material on most tracks.

phil1993 wrote:
Brazil 2009 he went from 15th to 5th in the race. Or what about Belgium 2011 and Italy 2011 when he pulled off a couple of great passes. Spain 2011 when he nailed three guys in one lap and then later in the race made sure he nailed the last turn every lap so that Hamilton didn't overtake him?


You have good detail knowledge of the past years. So it's nice to trade arguments with you. Remembering Italy 2011, yes that was a proper fight for position against Alonso but he had a damn good car there as well.

We need Vettel to switch teams to Ferrari or MGP teaming up with Alonso or Hamilton in order to settle the discussion. Otherwise we will go on forever.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:10 pm 
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You want to know the difference between a good driver and a great driver? Red Bull is displaying that right now. Webber is good. Very good. Vettel is great. Spain 2011 which Phil raised is actually the perfect point. Vettel pitted and then passed 3 guys in 1 lap. You can sit and say tyres if you want, but that isn't the point. The point is Webber pitted the next lap and had to nail the same 3 guys. He took 5 laps to do it. That is the difference between good and great. And even Brundle said that during the race.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:56 pm 
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Great strategy by Mercedes... Save tyres on Saturday so you're further up on Sunday... :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:23 pm 
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So what happened between Kobayashi and Maldonado? I know from reading a few post race reports they made contact, but who did what?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:26 pm 
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kals wrote:
So what happened between Kobayashi and Maldonado? I know from reading a few post race reports they made contact, but who did what?


Maldanado passed him but didn't clear him completely and as he cut back across his bow his rear tyre clipped Kobayashi's front wing and caused a puncture.

More of a clumsy incident than anything deliberate but still 90% Maldanado at fault.

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