BTCC 2024

VirtuaIceMan · PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:24 am

Ginetta Juniors became the new whacky races recently, Clios don't crash as much these days!

Philthy82 · PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:16 am

Vassago wrote:

Wacky races are gone? Boo!

But some people defended BTCC as major fun even though the champion won 1 race out of 30. Guess that's enough fun for Clios to be removed.

"Some people" = people with eyes

Vassago · PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:49 am

Nope. The artificial ballast racing is dead in my book. Been following motor racing for too long to ride the appeasing bandwagon in this day & age.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:39 pm

Name me a completely pure form of motorsport that doesn't resort to some form of spicing up the racing with something artificial....

I'll wait....

Gaara · PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:54 pm

Cheeveer · PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:15 pm

codename_47 wrote:

Name me a completely pure form of motorsport that doesn't resort to some form of spicing up the racing with something artificial....

I'll wait....

Does making everyone run the same car count?

Metzo · PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:37 pm

Vassago wrote:

Wacky races are gone? Boo!

But some people defended BTCC as major fun even though the champion won 1 race out of 30. Guess that's enough fun for Clios to be removed.

so what?

Volker Strycek won the DTM Championship in 1984 without winning a race and people praise old DTM for being more exciting than anything today.

Ian-S · PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:35 pm

codename_47 wrote:

Name me a completely pure form of motorsport that doesn't resort to some form of spicing up the racing with something artificial....

I'll wait....

Take your pick from any national single seater or tin top series running in club events. FFord 1600, Fiesta challenge.

Vassago · PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:14 am

codename_47 wrote:

Name me a completely pure form of motorsport that doesn't resort to some form of spicing up the racing with something artificial....

I'll wait....

And why should I do that? I largely stopped following touring cars ca. 10 years ago when they started to play the ballast performance game. It's always been a massive turn-off for me. I'm not gonna go with the flow in 2018. Everyone can suck BTCC kneecaps but it's not my choice. Add some sprint distances and it gets even worse.

pimmy · PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:38 am

Lol, touring car series have been using weight for BOP and success ballast since the mid 80's, keep up. And if you stopped following touring cars 10 years ago why are you posting all of this now? What are you trying to accomplish?

Vassago · PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 1:04 am

Of course I know BOP wasn't invented in the last decade. And there was a time when I ignored it. But that time is long gone. People are bitching about F1 & NASCAR all the time and that's apparently cool. So why can't someone bitch about BTCC? Are they the sacred cow of motor racing? :lol:

Gaara · PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:11 am

Because the racing is good in BTCC, it tends to suck in F1 and NASCAR. You'd know that if you actually bothered watching it instead of coming here to get a rise out of people. Stop trolling.

Vassago · PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:59 am

Good for club level/junior ladder system? Maybe. But otherwise this is a joke of a series. I'd rather watch Bathurst 1000 safety car in the rain than a 25 mins sprint races tbh. It's like flag football compared to NFL.

Funny how double standards are applied. You can moan about F1 in countless threads but one critic is too much for the BTCC sacred cow :roll:

Eddington mains · PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:23 am

codename_47 wrote:

Name me a completely pure form of motorsport that doesn't resort to some form of spicing up the racing with something artificial....

I'll wait....

FunCup.

Yes i am biased cause i work for the series but all the cars are identical and engines, gearboxes ans ECUS are sealed.
The only variations between the cars when theyre on track are suspension setup and the driver!

Sent from my SM-A530F using Tapatalk

Philthy82 · PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:26 am

As Dicksplaash suggested, a single-make fixed-spec series isn't really a fair comparison as it's a lot easier to keep competition tight when everyone's running the same thing. BTCC probably wouldn't need ballast either if everyone ran Civics, but I'm glad they have a variety of cars and drivetrains. The changing strengths from start to corner to long straight is a big part of what makes the BTCC the best motorsport in the world.

In my opinion, of course. Everyone has their own view on what good racing is, and another good thing about racing is there's all different types for all different tastes. Someone who goes out of their way to spend time shitting on the types they don't like, while admitting they never actually watch it, doesn't seem like a very happy person. In my opinion.

kals · PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:52 pm

I don't get the 'purist' or 'purism' thing in connection with motor racing, the sport has rarely been pure in it's existence. BTCC itself has had a virtually similar format for near 15 years now and only 6 years prior it introduced pit stops in order to spice up the racing. That was during the height of the Super Touring era. A decade before that the sport was multi-class where a major manufacturer was able to enter it's driver into a class which had zero competition and walk to the overall title, despite intense competition for drivers in all other classes. Hardly purity for BTCC's sake. But those were the rules back then and it doesn't diminish Cleland and Vauxhall's achievement like it shouldn't Turkington's this year. You race to the rules. If you don't like the racing then that's fine, I just don't understand the necessity for the complaint.

Vassago · PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:01 pm

Philthy82 wrote:

As Dicksplaash suggested, a single-make fixed-spec series isn't really a fair comparison as it's a lot easier to keep competition tight when everyone's running the same thing. BTCC probably wouldn't need ballast either if everyone ran Civics, but I'm glad they have a variety of cars and drivetrains. The changing strengths from start to corner to long straight is a big part of what makes the BTCC the best motorsport in the world.

In my opinion, of course. Everyone has their own view on what good racing is, and another good thing about racing is there's all different types for all different tastes. Someone who goes out of their way to spend time shitting on the types they don't like, while admitting they never actually watch it, doesn't seem like a very happy person. In my opinion.

Excuse me but I read shit posts about F1 and NASCAR all the time here and that's perfectly fine with the boards. Hell, some folks take extra pride in finding more reasons why F1 or NASCAR suck. And they admit they only watched like 2-3 races live all season yet rant about the sport all the time. Yet BTCC gets a pass because it's fun. And I'm the villain? Yeah, sprint races and reverse grids are always fun? Not for me. The last BTCC season I watched in extended fashion was the first one Turkington won in 2009? And it didn't make me thrive for the off-season. I've given up on DTM too. If it wasn't for live TV coverage I wouldn't have been browsing streaming channels to watch it. And I'd never choose a BTCC sprint over any F1 Grand Prix no matter if BTCC gives me 56 lead changes during a race weekend and 17 different winners in 30 races. Hell no.

kals wrote:

I don't get the 'purist' or 'purism' thing in connection with motor racing, the sport has rarely been pure in it's existence. BTCC itself has had a virtually similar format for near 15 years now and only 6 years prior it introduced pit stops in order to spice up the racing. That was during the height of the Super Touring era. A decade before that the sport was multi-class where a major manufacturer was able to enter it's driver into a class which had zero competition and walk to the overall title, despite intense competition for drivers in all other classes. Hardly purity for BTCC's sake. But those were the rules back then and it doesn't diminish Cleland and Vauxhall's achievement like it shouldn't Turkington's this year. You race to the rules. If you don't like the racing then that's fine, I just don't understand the necessity for the complaint.

It doesn't work that way for F1 and NASCAR though. Complaint is the name of the game for these two series. And what I don't understand is the double standards which bans any negative talk about BTCC.

kals · PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:22 pm

@

Vassago - the difference between your complaint against the BTCC and those that afflict F1 and NASCAR is that your complaint appears to be nothing more than you don’t like the racing and format. That’s fine, but the justification to that complaint appears flawed.

The many complaints about F1 and nascar are typically related to the constant meddling with the technical rules, sporting rules, formats, points, penalties, etc... whereas in BTCC there’s been a largely untouched formula and format over the past 15-20 years. There’s no double standard, we’re just looking at things with entirely different context.

kart99 · PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:56 pm

Also, don't think the BTCC is untouchable from criticism. For instance, I hate the fact that aero plays such a key role in the many series including the BTCC. I wish they would go back to a time when there was no aero. I also wish they would move back to saloon cars but I also realise that manufacturers' bread and butter these days are hatchbacks. And I'm not a massive fan of success ballast. Why should someone who is successful at what they do be punished? Surely, its for everyone else to catch up. Those are my feelings but I can bypass that because it is such an awesome series.

The BTCC is far, far superior to F1 and NASCAR for the racing, occasional changes to the rules and the characters it has produced and is producing. It IS exciting. It DOES produce loads of winners. It PULLs in the crowd. It is ENTERTAINING. It makes the best of the situation. More to the point if you havent watched a full season properly since 2009, why are you making such big noises about how crap it is to you? I just don't see the necessity for it.

Vassago · PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:18 am

kals wrote:

@vassago - the difference between your complaint against the BTCC and those that afflict F1 and NASCAR is that your complaint appears to be nothing more than you don’t like the racing and format. That’s fine, but the justification to that complaint appears flawed.

The many complaints about F1 and nascar are typically related to the constant meddling with the technical rules, sporting rules, formats, points, penalties, etc... whereas in BTCC there’s been a largely untouched formula and format over the past 15-20 years. There’s no double standard, we’re just looking at things with entirely different context.

BTCC has that feel of a spec series while it shouldn't be. If you have 17 winners from 30 races there's something wrong. Especially that reliability is no longer a problem in this day & age. Reverse grids and sprint distance generate ZERO excitement for me. It's club racing elevated into a national motor sport treasure because there is no alternative. F3 has been killed off so what's left to follow?

kart99 wrote:

Also, don't think the BTCC is untouchable from criticism. For instance, I hate the fact that aero plays such a key role in the many series including the BTCC. I wish they would go back to a time when there was no aero. I also wish they would move back to saloon cars but I also realise that manufacturers' bread and butter these days are hatchbacks. And I'm not a massive fan of success ballast. Why should someone who is successful at what they do be punished? Surely, its for everyone else to catch up. Those are my feelings but I can bypass that because it is such an awesome series.

The BTCC is far, far superior to F1 and NASCAR for the racing, occasional changes to the rules and the characters it has produced and is producing. It IS exciting. It DOES produce loads of winners. It PULLs in the crowd. It is ENTERTAINING. It makes the best of the situation. More to the point if you havent watched a full season properly since 2009, why are you making such big noises about how crap it is to you? I just don't see the necessity for it.

What character? Old man Plato is probably dragging the wheelchair in the trunk these days. What is he still doing there? I'd rather watch a three hour NASCAR race at Michigan than a 20 minute sprint at Thruxton. BTCC is like a snack before the real dish and quite frankly I don't need it on my menu.

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