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2023 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
https://tbk-light.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=2047		 Page 322 of 453
Author:  Cheeveer [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Fish88 wrote:
deggis wrote:
But that's going to be a track day special, actual race car bet should be still on on the 650S (converted to GTE).


I know. Just giving my opinion that these class of cars (P1, LaFerrari, 918 etc) should have been the top GT class and not the promoted GT2 cars we have nowadays.


Glorified GT3's TBH.
Author:  deggis [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Fish88 wrote:
deggis wrote:
But that's going to be a track day special, actual race car bet should be still on on the 650S (converted to GTE).


I know. Just giving my opinion that these class of cars (P1, LaFerrari, 918 etc) should have been the top GT class and not the promoted GT2 cars we have nowadays.

I think your comparison is a bit wrong though. Earlier equivalents of those would be Enzo, Carrera GT and so on, but they were never GT1 cars. A lot of the technology would have to be stripped away from the hypercars or regulating would become hard.
Author:  Fish88 [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
deggis wrote:
Fish88 wrote:
deggis wrote:
But that's going to be a track day special, actual race car bet should be still on on the 650S (converted to GTE).


I know. Just giving my opinion that these class of cars (P1, LaFerrari, 918 etc) should have been the top GT class and not the promoted GT2 cars we have nowadays.

I think your comparison is a bit wrong though. Earlier equivalents of those would be Enzo, Carrera GT and so on, but they were never GT1 cars. A lot of the technology would have to be stripped away from the hypercars or regulating would become hard.


I was in my earlier post pointing at the 90's periode with McLaren GTR, F40 and you van also count those special build Porsches and Mercedes under that GT category.

Ferrari and Mercedes (and Pagani) are building special track versions of their Hyper-cars. Would be cool tot have a category where they could develop real racing cars. GT1 like from the 2000's would also be great, hell every upgrade from the current cars are better. The downsizing needs to stop.

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Author:  ellis [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
You say downsizing compared to 2000s GT1s, but GTE in 2014 posted the same pole time as GT1 in 2009. So what we have now is as fast as GT1 ever was.

Remember that the CLR was not a GT1 car. It was an LMGTP. There was not a CLR road car.
Author:  Fish88 [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
ellis wrote:
You say downsizing compared to 2000s GT1s, but GTE in 2014 posted the same pole time as GT1 in 2009. So what we have now is as fast as GT1 ever was.

Remember that the CLR was not a GT1 car. It was an LMGTP. There was not a CLR road car.


Your wrong on the faster part. 2008 pole time was 3:47.668 compared to the 3:54.230 of 2009 (2008 was the height of GT1 anyway with Corvette vs. Aston Martin). I knew some rules changed in between those years (not sure anymore what it was).

Forgot the CLR was a prototype, should have posted the 1998 car.
Author:  ellis [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Remember the 1998 car wasn't even a real GT1. No road versions of the CLK LM were sold,, only the 1997 CLK GTR had road versions, but even they were sold after the car raced. Both the LM and GTR were illegal under the sporting regulations for FIA GT and Le Mans. I'm not sure big GT1s are a sustainable series really.
Author:  Fish88 [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Same story with the MC12. I don't mind going back to the GT1 of the millennium only that had the same kinda thing, Maserati dominated FIA GT (probably would have dominated other series as well if it wasn't banned) with their car build to the regulations. You're right with sustainability, but it is just sad to see that Mclaren and Ferrari have hypercars and are building trackversions of them while there is no possibility for them to race in any series :(. With the pre-2010 GT1 rules you could have hypercars in a somewhat detuned form the MC12 was an Enzo and even Pagani raced for 2 years.

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Author:  deggis [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Fish88 wrote:
with their car build to the regulations.

Wasn't it the opposite? Pretty inherit issues, dimensions: (2004) http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/38365

Am I correct: FIA GT simply ended up homologating it anyway / changing regulations? ACO never did that which obviously explains why it only ever raced in ALMS as a non-championship points scoring car.
Author:  ellis [ Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
IIRC, it was deisnged for a proposed set of regulations for the ACO, which were never ran. FIA GT homologated it with engine restrictors and a smaller rear wing. Basically cut bits off the car so it wasn't a complete waste of Maserati (and Ferraris) time.
Author:  StanV [ Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
AF Corse fielded their two cars in Imola 2004 after agreement by the other teams + the restrictions that ellis brought up above, as well as being non-championship entrants. After JMB and Vitaphone purchased two cars each, non-championship became championship for 2005. I don't think anything significant changed between the cars entered in 2004 by AF Corse and the ones entered in 2005.
Author:  StanV [ Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
ESM Enters FIA WEC at COTA, Scales Back TUSC Entry

(thought I'd post it in the thread where it fits as "good news")
Author:  Cheeveer [ Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Strakka decides against running anything but the 2014 finale

/acts like its good news
Author:  hedgey666 [ Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
I'm starting to think Strakka are going to go out of business before that car runs in anything official.
Author:  deggis [ Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
StanV wrote:
ESM Enters FIA WEC at COTA, Scales Back TUSC Entry

(thought I'd post it in the thread where it fits as "good news")

Corvette also going to race in WEC with 1 car.
Author:  Fish88 [ Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Haha Corvette going to WEC is a big fuck you to the France and Panoz. Sure not completely (yet), but it sure is a bad sign for them.

hedgey666 wrote:
I'm starting to think Strakka are going to go out of business before that car runs in anything official.


The life story of Dome...
Author:  Cheeveer [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
29 cars at Austin is being called a "bumper entry". Ouch.
Author:  ellis [ Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
It's limited to 30 outside of Le Mans I think. 29 is the highest entry number this year for WEC.
Author:  Cheeveer [ Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
ellis wrote:
It's limited to 30 outside of Le Mans I think. 29 is the highest entry number this year for WEC.


Haha, is it so? It only sounds like an excuse for small fields - "no no, no problems here, we have to limit the field size, see!"

Welp, it's not that bad anyway. For a long time world sportscar races in America outside Sebring has had small fields, due to the expenses for the European teams. In the 70's the TransAm series were usually brought along as an invitational class.

The sad thing is when Silverstone and Spa only have 27 and 28 cars, when two years ago it was 40.
Author:  deggis [ Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Earlier this year it was said to be 32, and the first entry list had 31 full season entries so at minimum it has gone up from past years. I'm not sure if it is even a written rule or bullshit myth because I've never found it from the sporting regulations.

In any case additional entries have always been possible, this is the full season cap. It's stupid but exists obviously because of LM. If there was no limit and WEC was booming with 50 cars... not many entries outside WEC possible.
Author:  Cheeveer [ Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS
Nissan opting for a North American approach? I think it sounds rather sketchy, rather than using one of their Super GT teams.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/deta ... m-program/
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