2023 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS

ellis · PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:58 pm

Woodski wrote:

ellis wrote:

How would giving them an extra 200 hp be easy? You'd need to change so much that you might as well make a new car. The engine would have to find 200hp, the gearbox and differential would need updated, as well as the cooling. You don't just add 200hp to a reliable car and say it'll be fine.

You really don't know much about the ease of pushing power into a big displacement V8, do you.

So will doing that automatically give it a new gearbox to cope with the added torque, and better cooling to cope with the heat?

You don't just add power to engines and everything else works. And you certainly can't just add power, "give them better aero" and expect them to challenge LMPs.

Woodski · PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:14 pm

ellis wrote:

Woodski wrote:

ellis wrote:

How would giving them an extra 200 hp be easy? You'd need to change so much that you might as well make a new car. The engine would have to find 200hp, the gearbox and differential would need updated, as well as the cooling. You don't just add 200hp to a reliable car and say it'll be fine.

You really don't know much about the ease of pushing power into a big displacement V8, do you.

So will doing that automatically give it a new gearbox to cope with the added torque, and better cooling to cope with the heat?

You don't just add power to engines and everything else works. And you certainly can't just add power, "give them better aero" and expect them to challenge LMPs.

Never said they'd be challenging LMP's.

Just being able to go a good bit quicker than GTE cars.

You wouldn't even have to change the gearbox, the XTrac unit they currently run is good for 625ft/lb.

ellis · PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:24 pm

lol Xtrac. Lets ask some GP3, GP2 and F1 teams what happens when you get even relatively close to the Xtrac "limit". There's a reason why that gearbox is cheap and was picked to be way over the current stress levels.

Sorry, but I just disagree with you. You can't just pump power into the car find "more downforce" and expect it to be all ok. These Gen 3s are only meant to be run till the end of 2014 anyway, so finish them a year early and have proper regulations. Sort it out soon and give everybody 18 months to get ready. No arsing about with old cars trying to equalise them in silly ways, no adding random classes to make up the numbers. Form a set of rules quickly (either one of the pre-existing sets, or SuperGT are possible if you need it done quickly), and be done with it.

Do it properly, or don't do it at all.

ptclaus98 · PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:38 pm

ellis wrote:

ptclaus98 wrote:

You get your prototypes at Sebring, so fans can still go see them.

Sebring is owned by the Panoz group, so along with the ALMS buy out will go to Grand Am.

And making this a GT only series makes it essentially worthless. There are already countless GT only series around the world, why bother making this yet another one?

Because it makes financial sense while keeping prestige and competition. Prototypes are never going to work like they did from the mid to late naughts without significant manufacturer support. GT2 was the only thing that kept the prestige in ALMS. The rest of it was lame. So if GARRA trims the fat, then GTE is what is left. :cry:

ellis · PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:43 pm

ptclaus98 wrote:

Because it makes financial sense while keeping prestige and competition. Prototypes are never going to work like they did from the mid to late naughts without significant manufacturer support. GT2 was the only thing that kept the prestige in ALMS. The rest of it was lame. So if GARRA trims the fat, then GTE is what is left. :cry:

It makes financial sense to who though. I agree with everything you say, but Sebring and Petit are both owned by Panoz. So if they want to keep ACO prototypes running there then they either need the new series to go with ACO rules, or they need to keep Petit out of the merger and talk to the ACO and FIA separately.

Depending on where you read the information from, the story on how this merger is going ahead changes. DSC is claiming that ALMS looks to be the controlling entity and will run the new series. So that would suggest maybe NASCAR is selling off Grand-Am. But Mulsanne Mike is claiming that NASCAR is out right buying the Panoz Group, which would include ALMS and all the circuits. MM is a smart guy, but he's always been a bit butt hurt concerning Grand Am. He doesn't even allow Grand Am/DP discussion on his Facebook group, so maybe he's just having a little moan. Or maybe he's right, who knows.

Shane · PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:05 pm

I think it's alittle early to assume Sebring and Road Atlanta are included in any deal. Especially when it is called a series merger rather then something else.

ptclaus98 · PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:37 am

Speaking of Petit, is anyone going this year?

ptclaus98 · PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:47 am

ellis wrote:

ptclaus98 wrote:

Because it makes financial sense while keeping prestige and competition. Prototypes are never going to work like they did from the mid to late naughts without significant manufacturer support. GT2 was the only thing that kept the prestige in ALMS. The rest of it was lame. So if GARRA trims the fat, then GTE is what is left. :cry:

It makes financial sense to who though. I agree with everything you say, but Sebring and Petit are both owned by Panoz. So if they want to keep ACO prototypes running there then they either need the new series to go with ACO rules, or they need to keep Petit out of the merger and talk to the ACO and FIA separately.

Depending on where you read the information from, the story on how this merger is going ahead changes. DSC is claiming that ALMS looks to be the controlling entity and will run the new series. So that would suggest maybe NASCAR is selling off Grand-Am. But Mulsanne Mike is claiming that NASCAR is out right buying the Panoz Group, which would include ALMS and all the circuits. MM is a smart guy, but he's always been a bit butt hurt concerning Grand Am. He doesn't even allow Grand Am/DP discussion on his Facebook group, so maybe he's just having a little moan. Or maybe he's right, who knows.

It makes immediate financial sense to the teams that are caught in the middle of all of this. Manufacturers will be inclined, in America, to spend money on GT, unless of course, they are trying to prove a specific technology. But that doesn't help the series, any series, if the manufacturers were so stingy with cars and technology that they compete with. And I'm not saying they don't have every right. But how great for the sport would it have been if upon leaving, Peugeot would have designated two teams to run their 908's? Greg Pickett found out that no matter how much you have you can't buy an R18, and I'd bet that there is no way in hell he could buy an R15, either.

ptclaus98 · PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:57 am

BTW, the Delta Wing will be at Petit. Could be the last hurrah.

Ferrari · PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:56 am

Per Mike Fuller aka mulsannescorner

-ALMS/Grand-Am "merger"=France family out right purchase of Panoz owned tracks hotels assets. ALMS dead in 3, 2, 1...

-Atherton & Panoz on board of France owned company. LM name will be dropped when contract runs out.

-Prototype category will not use ACO regulations.

-Operations will either be in Charlotte or Daytona.

Woodski · PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:25 am

Ferrari wrote:

Per Mike Fuller aka mulsannescorner

-ALMS/Grand-Am "merger"=France family out right purchase of Panoz owned tracks hotels assets. ALMS dead in 3, 2, 1...

-Atherton & Panoz on board of France owned company. LM name will be dropped when contract runs out.

-Prototype category will not use ACO regulations.

-Operations will either be in Charlotte or Daytona.

When has the ALMS ever run to ACO regulations in the prototype category ;]

deggis · PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:31 am

^ http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showpos ... tcount=224

+ http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/

ellis · PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:47 am

DSC reported otherwise.

Quote:

Whilst in terms of potentially available financial clout that would be the NASCAR owned Grand-Am, current sources though suggest the opposite, that the ALMS would be the more controlling partner, providing the regulatory framework that guides a future joint board!

http://www.dailysportscar.com/viewArtic ... E648DA6CDA

Woodski · PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:37 pm

Quote:

I would share all the details, but was told not to disclose anything new until after tomorrow, as the leak from this weekend was a pretty big issue for them apparently. I will say that we won't be left with just GA DP and GA GT, as everyone is fearing, after 2013.

from:
http://americanlemansfans.com/viewtopic ... &start=360

Gabriel · PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:59 am

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ ... on-emerge/

Quote:

Ahead of Wednesday’s highly anticipated announcement in Daytona Beach, Fla, (Live! SPEED and SPEED.com 10 a.m. ET) here are some unconfirmed details we’ve heard that may or may not be revealed during the press conference that will unite the two series.

** The Panoz Motor Sports Group (ALMS) has been acquired by GRAND-AM/NASCAR Holdings LLC, reportedly in the eight-figure range, and includes the sale of Road Atlanta and long-term lease of Sebring International Raceway. The assets are reportedly part of a new entity that places it under the NASCAR umbrella.

** GRAND-AM co-founder and NASCAR Vice Chairman/Executive Vice President Jim France is expected to serve as the Chairman of the unified series, with ALMS founder Don Panoz reportedly as Vice Chairman. ALMS President and CEO Scott Atherton could serve on the board of directors.

** Both series are expected to operate separately in 2013 without any major changes, other than the ownership, with the official merger tabbed for 2014. Current television and commercial contracts appear to have prevented a merger for as early as next year.

** Exact details of the class structure is not expected to be announced tomorrow. However, it’s believed both the current Daytona Prototype and Rolex Series GT categories will be included, along with the highly competitive ALMS GT class. P2 could also feature, although possibly equalized with a potentially faster DP class.

** There appears to be a desire to continue a relationship with the Automobile Club de l’Ouest, although the current agreement with the ALMS expires in 2013. Many questions still surround this potential arrangement, especially as it could relate to the class structure and international link.

cookie · PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:21 pm

live press conference is now on: http://www.grand-am.com/

Hank Hill · PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:38 pm

I dont know if i'm the only one, but I am disappointed bigtime in this press conference.

ellis · PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:41 pm

Hank Hill wrote:

I dont know if i'm the only one, but I am disappointed bigtime in this press conference.

They keep talking shit. Oh we did the deal on the golf course and we had a bet and framed a dollar and that is the foundation of our new series and we'll use that to move forw...shut the fuck up. Then the next question was just Scott A had a cold.

Only things worth mentioning right now:

12 races, starting with Daytona 24 then Sebring 12, and including Road Atlanta. Possible drop week to allow teams to run at Le Mans without penalty. Attempt at keeping the link to Le Mans alive, and discussions are ongoing with the ACO.

Shane · PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:02 pm

GrandAm sucks.

hedgey666 · PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:53 pm

Hank Hill wrote:

I dont know if i'm the only one, but I am disappointed bigtime in this press conference.

It was a whole lot of nothing with frills and "look at us, we're unified". Clearly just thrown together because the merger was leaked - they haven't even worked on many of the details yet, far less have anything to actually announce.

TBK-Light.com

2023 Sportscar Discussion - WEC/ELMS/AsLMS

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