TBK-Light.com

Motorsport videos and chat.
It is currently Tue May 28, 2024 12:24 am

All times are UTC+01:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 1376 posts ]  Go to page Previous 148 49 50 51 5269 Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:29 am 
Offline
Founder of the Yaytree
Founder of the Yaytree
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 28312
Location: Birmingham, UK (Not near DEGA :( )
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 1882 times
THRUXTON 500!

With all the usual supports on track too as seperate classes.

(Except the Porsches, they'd be quicker. Fuck the Porsches they get to race at the Nurburgring anyway....)

_________________
RIP Birmingham Wheels: here's some of the crash videos I recorded when it was there:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIaKIE ... 5t9d5PvoHA

Twitter:

http://www.twitter.com/paulhadsley


Top
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 1:31 am 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:21 am
Posts: 6424
Has thanked: 413 times
Been thanked: 655 times
Why does anyone want longer races in BTCC? Maybe one enduro, sure, but sprint races are part of what BTCC is and too many other touring car championships have been dulled by the move to longer races (V8 Supercars). BTCC events are some of the best value for time in terms of the number of different series, winners, losers and incidents you get in just a few hours. Not every series needs to go longer to get bigger.

_________________
Image


Top
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 5:59 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 10381
Has thanked: 294 times
Been thanked: 280 times
I don't have a problem with the current length of the races, although I'd rather BTCC ran a few more laps and the Porsche races were shorter! Would love to see a one off endurance race. Snetterton... Purely because I'd definitely go to that.


Top
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 3:46 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:39 pm
Posts: 15445
Has thanked: 408 times
Been thanked: 1658 times
In thinking about the first round of "equalisation" measures that were put into place at Thruxton over the weekend, I decided to look at the stats (per manufacturer) of the 9 races so far...

Wins (9 total)
Honda Civic - 6
MG6 - 2
BMW 1 Series - 1

Podiums (27 total)
Honda Civic - 18
MG6 - 5
VW Passat - 2
Audi A4 - 1
BMW 1 Series - 1

Poles (Race 1 only, 3 total)
Honda Civic - 3

Why do I get the feeling that there will be another round of "equalisation" measures in advance of the next round?

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk


Top
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 3:52 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:22 pm
Posts: 93852
Location: New ribs please...
Has thanked: 398 times
Been thanked: 1352 times
There shouldn't be, it was a simple tyre failure that stopped it from being Honda 5 MG 3. Honda also have more cars which explains why they have more podiums while MG does have a rookie in its second car.


Top
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:07 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:39 pm
Posts: 15445
Has thanked: 408 times
Been thanked: 1658 times
For sure. I agree with you on those points, stats don't give a fair reflection of actuality. However as we've seen in the past, the BTCC doesn't seem to use logic when dealing with equalisation.

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk


Top
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:28 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:22 pm
Posts: 93852
Location: New ribs please...
Has thanked: 398 times
Been thanked: 1352 times
I'd say the Honda and MG are just about equal, it's just that the MG doesn't seem to like the added weight as much as the Honda's do. I remember the old style Civic having the same issue years ago.


Top
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:30 pm 
Offline
Honorary Member
Honorary Member

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:48 am
Posts: 25040
Has thanked: 62 times
Been thanked: 420 times
I think the problem is it can be circuit specific sometimes, or even simply a team making a slight set-up error.

It'd be like F1 going to Monza, seeing the Renault engines struggling and then deciding to cap the others back for Singapore. Silly.

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011


Top
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:59 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:39 pm
Posts: 15445
Has thanked: 408 times
Been thanked: 1658 times
Gaara wrote:
I'd say the Honda and MG are just about equal, it's just that the MG doesn't seem to like the added weight as much as the Honda's do. I remember the old style Civic having the same issue years ago.


But here's the thing. The Honda is the better car, marginally. And as a result there are three of it's four drivers filling three of the top four places in the championship. Why do the rules need tinkering when the best car is giving us fans a fascinating championship battle between all it's top drivers?

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk


Top
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:40 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 10381
Has thanked: 294 times
Been thanked: 280 times
kals wrote:
Why do the rules need tinkering when the best car is giving us fans a fascinating championship battle between all it's top drivers?


Plato.


Top
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 10:45 pm 
Offline
Founder of the Yaytree
Founder of the Yaytree
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 28312
Location: Birmingham, UK (Not near DEGA :( )
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 1882 times
Perhaps the way to true fair racing in the BTCC would be to convince Honda to hire Plato...

Then he'd get the best car and we wouldn't have to go through all this equalisation crap just to give the superstar his championship hope year after year.

And I know, it won't happen so long as the Neals are around.

Still, I do expect the Hondas to be massively pegged back before Oulton.
They didn't exactly announce what they did before thruxton either, if Harvey didn't mention it I wouldn't have known, so
maybe they don't announce it any more, for publicity reasons.

_________________
RIP Birmingham Wheels: here's some of the crash videos I recorded when it was there:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIaKIE ... 5t9d5PvoHA

Twitter:

http://www.twitter.com/paulhadsley


Top
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:49 am 
Offline
Honorary Member
Honorary Member

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:48 am
Posts: 25040
Has thanked: 62 times
Been thanked: 420 times
Between MG and Honda... top speeds:

Qualifying:
Plato 134.2
Tordoff 132.6
Smith 131.8
Neal 131.8
Jordan 131.3
Shedden 130.8

Race 1:
Plato 134.2
Smith 132.1
Neal 131.5
Tordoff 131.3
Jordan 130.3
Shedden 130.3

Race 2:
Plato 133.9
Tordoff 132.8
Jordan 132.6
Smith 132.1
Shedden 131.8
Neal 131.5

Race 3:
Plato 135.5
Tordoff 132.8
Smith 132.6
Neal 132.3
Jordan 131.8
Shedden 131.8

Seems rather conclusive to me.

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011


Top
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:26 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:39 pm
Posts: 15445
Has thanked: 408 times
Been thanked: 1658 times
phil1993 wrote:
Seems rather conclusive to me.


Except that it is not, is it?

BTCC uses average lap times to adjust equalisation, not top speeds.

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk


Top
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:14 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 10381
Has thanked: 294 times
Been thanked: 280 times
There's too many factors for that to ever be fair. Some cars are better suited to certain tracks. Some teams have more talented drivers than others. Some teams may have built a damn good car, and should be rewarded for that, even if it doesn't give us a 10 way fight for the lead every race.

Is there much incentive to invest more time and money into a good car, if it just gets pegged back? Or maybe that's one way of keeping costs down...


Top
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:35 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:39 pm
Posts: 15445
Has thanked: 408 times
Been thanked: 1658 times
It is a bit of a broken record isn't it? The team who build the best car shouldn't be penalised for succeeding in their task. The team who build the best car naturally should be able to win. Each car will be different and have strengths in different areas. We saw that at Thruxton. The VW Passat was strong in the fast stuff whereas the MG was stronger in the slow stuff. Sometimes one car will be much quicker in a straightline but slower in the corners. What isn't normally is fiddling with the turbo boost in order to unnaturally change or influence the performance of cars.

For instance, if we go back to the late 90's and look at the performance difference between two very different cars, run by two very different teams who have very different budgets - the Williams Renault Laguna and MSD Peugeot 406. One was dominant, the other rarely achieved a good result. I would have dearly loved to see the 406 achieve a win or multiple podiums, or not see the Laguna dominate as much as it did. But MSD didn't have the same resources as Williams and therefore the 406 wasn't in the same league. Had Gow and BTCC fiddled with things then the way they do now, it would have been really disappointing and I'm sure Harvey, Watts and Radisich would have been vocal about it. As would the other leading runners of the time. Audi received weight penalty adjustments, but that was because they were in 4WD config.

What isn't fair is penalising a team for doing a better job than their competition. That is not motorsport, 'that is a bit like wrestling' (thanks Mark Webber).

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk


Top
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 3:40 am 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:21 am
Posts: 6424
Has thanked: 413 times
Been thanked: 655 times
Success ballast already does enough to prevent one team dominating an event, if they left it at that and left boost levels alone it'd be fine.

_________________
Image


Top
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 8:16 am 
Offline
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:35 pm
Posts: 19221
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 78 times
Call me old fashioned, but I personally love the fact that a championship is determined by the team that builds the best car over the course of a season.

Oh and some 2014 news. Aaron Steele has signed up with RGM Motorsport to drive a NGTC car. However, at this extremely early stage I would say it's just a document to get sponsors interested.


Top
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 1:11 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:39 pm
Posts: 15445
Has thanked: 408 times
Been thanked: 1658 times
Philthy82 wrote:
Success ballast already does enough to prevent one team dominating an event, if they left it at that and left boost levels alone it'd be fine.


This :thumbsup:

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk


Top
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:41 pm 
Offline
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:35 pm
Posts: 19221
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 78 times
A thoroughly interesting read about what happens when a car is crashed and the process that happens when it occurs:

http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/05/the-process-we-can-rebuild-him-the-crash-test/


Top
 Post subject: Re: 2013 BTCC- KIA in?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:54 pm 
Offline
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:35 pm
Posts: 19221
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 78 times
Stockton's Cruze is starting to take shape:

https://twitter.com/ChrisStockton28/status/323420551743954946/photo/1


Top
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 1376 posts ]  Go to page Previous 148 49 50 51 5269 Next

All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited