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BTCC Rd. 6 @ Snetterton 3rd-4th August 2013
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Author:  Shane [ Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BTCC Rd. 6 @ Snetterton 3rd-4th August 2013
hedgey666 wrote:
Worst ever idea in motorsports.

Image


Or best..?
Author:  codename_47 [ Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BTCC Rd. 6 @ Snetterton 3rd-4th August 2013
Muller wasn't that liked in 2002, after whatever happened with Plato in 2001 at Silverstone (engine cut out or deliberate wreck, YOU DECIDE) the casual fans took against him pretty swiftly due to the whole British hero chased out of British team by evil foreigner angle.

I remember admiring him for his car control but he was pretty much in the villain role the whole time he was in the BTCC...
Plato I remember being a dick in the Super Touring Era but a rookie dick so you assumed he'd calm down and stop hitting people at some point. Naive, that. Didn't properly hate him until he came back with SEAT tho.
Matt Neal was the plucky independant trying to fight with the big boys, everyone loves an underdog eh? :p

Anthony Reid I remember being the biggest cock of them all. Both Neal and Muller nearly punched his lights out on separate occasions and they rarely agreed on anything :p
Author:  kals [ Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BTCC Rd. 6 @ Snetterton 3rd-4th August 2013
Weird thing is, I don't remember Reid being that much of a dick. He was about as rough as everyone else but his roughness seemed to be more on the comedy / idiotic side rather than villainous / intentional.
Author:  codename_47 [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BTCC Rd. 6 @ Snetterton 3rd-4th August 2013
He seemed to have less self-awareness than any of the others (which is saying a lot) so one interview he'd be making a big song and dance about driving standards in the BTCC and the next he'd be driving people off the road in a straight line at Silverstone, etc.

I forget what he did that led to Muller grabbing him by the throat as he exited his MG at Brands Hatch one year (was it the infamous late race SC leading to 1 lap shitstorm of action race?) but I remember that and the Silverstone thing being some of the worst things in BTCC...
Author:  kals [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BTCC Rd. 6 @ Snetterton 3rd-4th August 2013
codename_47 wrote:
He seemed to have less self-awareness than any of the others (which is saying a lot) so one interview he'd be making a big song and dance about driving standards in the BTCC and the next he'd be driving people off the road in a straight line at Silverstone, etc.


Yeah that's what I was referring to in terms of comedic / idiotic. Although I've always maintained the belief that the famous incident with Matt Neal at Silverstone was more Matt than Anthony.

As for the Muller thing, I remember it but don't remember what caused it. Don't forget the incidents at Brands involving Menu in 1997 and then Rydell grabbing him in 1998. Anthony always seemed to get everyone's goat in the BTCC.
Author:  codename_47 [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BTCC Rd. 6 @ Snetterton 3rd-4th August 2013
kals wrote:
codename_47 wrote:
He seemed to have less self-awareness than any of the others (which is saying a lot) so one interview he'd be making a big song and dance about driving standards in the BTCC and the next he'd be driving people off the road in a straight line at Silverstone, etc.


Yeah that's what I was referring to in terms of comedic / idiotic. Although I've always maintained the belief that the famous incident with Matt Neal at Silverstone was more Matt than Anthony.


Really? Across all Motorsports I have absolutely no truck with the car that's being passed moving over in a straight line and edging the car behind towards the grass.
From what I remember the initial contact from the MG unsettled the Honda and caused more contact, it wasn't Matt deliberately saying "fuck this" and turning into him :p

That said, I'd still like to see him back in the BTCC. I wonder what he's doing now (aside from seemingly showing off at Goodwood every year, I hardly see him any more )
Author:  kals [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BTCC Rd. 6 @ Snetterton 3rd-4th August 2013
I'm not trying to say it was intentional from Matt. More that Matt could have done more to avoid what happened and not simply laid 100% of the blame elsewhere. Anthony could have also avoided it but I felt Matt's actions made the incident worse than it should have otherwise have been.

From memory, at the point of the initial contact Matt's Honda had barely any of his car alongside Anthony. Just a tiny portion of the nose. In my opinion, that was a lost position and no realistic chance of fighting back.
Author:  codename_47 [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BTCC Rd. 6 @ Snetterton 3rd-4th August 2013
I need to go look at this on YT cos I'm debating something that's a hazy memory.

I have Matt in the Honda in my head, now I'm worried he'll be in the Egg Sport Vauxhall when I look at it too :p

What year was it exactly, do you remember?
Author:  kals [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BTCC Rd. 6 @ Snetterton 3rd-4th August 2013
It was 2004 I believe. I'll look as well.

EDIT - search YT for "BTCC 2004 Race 9".
Author:  codename_47 [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BTCC Rd. 6 @ Snetterton 3rd-4th August 2013
Not the one, I know, but as I searched I found another big incident caused by Reid playing Ralf Schumacher when there's 2 cars to his inside...

[youtubeidiot]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZdTSG8_0X4[/youtubeidiot]

What's worse is that since he was the 3rd car at the chicane....he KNEW there was 2 cars ahead of him... :8:
Author:  codename_47 [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BTCC Rd. 6 @ Snetterton 3rd-4th August 2013
Here we go, about 9 mins in:

[youtubeidiot]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhfXg4vjX3I[/youtubeidiot]

And well, from the on-board you can clearly see Neal is there but Reid keeps coming over on him.
Neal stands his ground, but good on him, you have to stand up to these bullies sometimes.

Even mild mannered Thompson called him a "clown who should be juggling balls in a circus" and it usually takes a lot to get the placid JT to get involved in the BTCC theatrics :p

(Come back soon Thommo, you more than anyone!)
Author:  kals [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BTCC Rd. 6 @ Snetterton 3rd-4th August 2013
Not quite sure what he was thinking in the Thruxton incident but I stand by what I say regarding Silverstone. You can see from the outside shot that Matt has barely any of his nose alongside Anthony. The onboard doesn't give a fair reflection or view as you can't see the nose of Neal's car.
Author:  RtN [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BTCC Rd. 6 @ Snetterton 3rd-4th August 2013
The fact that Reid ended up as far on the grass as Matt did is proof all by itself that Reid was not interested in simply blocking Matt from passing, he was trying to introduce him to Lamy's piece of spectator tunnel.
Author:  kals [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BTCC Rd. 6 @ Snetterton 3rd-4th August 2013
I completely disagree. Reid gave Matt just enough room but Matt didn't feel it was enough. But even then, Matt barely had any of his nose alongside and just a gentle nudge between the two sent them both off. Plus, I'd forgotten how that whole incident started. Which was the standard Matt Neal bump and pass, no wonder Reid wanted to leave Neal as little space as possible.

And as for Thommo's comments, very true.
Author:  De Cesaris fan [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BTCC Rd. 6 @ Snetterton 3rd-4th August 2013
I think that on a straight, you only need an inch alongside to have a right to that piece of track. If moving across on somebody is forcing them to brake, that's a block.

Completely different story in a corner of course, but I wouldn't call that kink a proper corner. I'd put all the blame on Reid myself. (I do agree that Matt has probably tapped him wide and angered him in the first place, which also isn't right).
Author:  ellis [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BTCC Rd. 6 @ Snetterton 3rd-4th August 2013
That accident was Reids fault completely. Car alongside, you can't just run them off the road.
Author:  kals [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BTCC Rd. 6 @ Snetterton 3rd-4th August 2013
We'll need to agree to disagree. The car wasn't alongside, I'm not sure how you can call that as a car alongside.

I should also point out that I'm completely ignoring the fact that Reid isn't taking a normal racing line through that kink, it is 100% on Reid that he's pushing Neal wide. My arguement on the incident is purely on the amount of car that Neal has alongside Reid, which is barely anything. Reid could have given more room, but he didn't need to as he was the car ahead and left just enough room. Whereas Neal could have been more circumspect and even put a couple of wheels on the grass if he felt he was at risk. But he chose not to.

I've also always felt that Neal's attack on Reid in front of the cameras after the race was very telling. There didn't seem much anger in his eyes, he almost looked a little afraid and dare I say it... guilty. There was no conviction in his attack. Completely the opposite of what we've seen against the likes of Plato in years past.

I know I'm in the minority in seeing things this way.
Author:  codename_47 [ Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BTCC Rd. 6 @ Snetterton 3rd-4th August 2013
Yep...I agree with the consensus, and I think it's an official fia law now, as soon as a car has even a little overlap then they need racing room.
It's even more stupid to come over on someone who has his nose inside as it's more likely you'll turn yourself over the nose of the car trying to pass you.
If matt was more alongside then he'd be more successful in driving him off the road without damaging his own race.

As for the post race, neal comes across with the confidence of a black belt in judo confronting a tubby middle aged man and reid looks like he's mentally screaming "don't hit me don't hit me oh god please don't hit meeeee"
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