Fuck Jimmie Johnson.
Not watching Homestead.
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| Cup/NWS/Trucks @ Phoenix International Raceway https://tbk-light.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=4849 |
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| Author: | Freshgeek [ Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cup/NWS/Trucks @ Phoenix International Raceway |
Philthy82 wrote: Here's what I think is a legitimate criticism of the Chase system: You can put all your effort into the last 10 races each year, start the next season weak as a result of missing out on the late-season and offseason development, and come back strong at the end of the year again. Most championships, F1 in particular, at least have the benefit of seeing a championship team the previous year have to sacrifice some performance the following year because they've focused on winning the championship instead of development and chassis building. That's why pre-chase it was so hard to win 4 in a row; the championship contenders would usually start on the back foot a bit the following season. How is that any different from any playoff system? I can't stand Jimmie Johnson winning all the time, but the chase is not the problem. The problem is that the other contenders consistently choke in the final ten races while the 48 team steps up to plate and dominates. I hear people saying that Jimmie would have a smaller lead if this were the old system an Jeff Gordon would still be in contention, but with ten races to go in the season, eight or nine cars had a legitimate chance to win the title. I am a huge Tony Stewart fan and I have no problem with the way the champion is determined. The 48 has shown four times in a row that they are the best when the chips are down, it is up to the other teams to catch up, not NASCAR to change the system. |
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| Author: | EvilVendingMachine [ Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cup/NWS/Trucks @ Phoenix International Raceway |
Freshgeek wrote: How is that any different from any playoff system? Because NASCAR is NOT a stick and ball sport. Its racing, and these half baked show systems simply DONT WORK. Cartman wrote: We might as well Shit of Shame the Homestead thread when it all ends. It's not even worth it. Just open the thread in SOS and we'll post there. |
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| Author: | Philthy82 [ Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cup/NWS/Trucks @ Phoenix International Raceway |
Freshgeek wrote: Philthy82 wrote: Here's what I think is a legitimate criticism of the Chase system: You can put all your effort into the last 10 races each year, start the next season weak as a result of missing out on the late-season and offseason development, and come back strong at the end of the year again. Most championships, F1 in particular, at least have the benefit of seeing a championship team the previous year have to sacrifice some performance the following year because they've focused on winning the championship instead of development and chassis building. That's why pre-chase it was so hard to win 4 in a row; the championship contenders would usually start on the back foot a bit the following season. How is that any different from any playoff system? I can't stand Jimmie Johnson winning all the time, but the chase is not the problem. The problem is that the other contenders consistently choke in the final ten races while the 48 team steps up to plate and dominates. I hear people saying that Jimmie would have a smaller lead if this were the old system an Jeff Gordon would still be in contention, but with ten races to go in the season, eight or nine cars had a legitimate chance to win the title. I am a huge Tony Stewart fan and I have no problem with the way the champion is determined. The 48 has shown four times in a row that they are the best when the chips are down, it is up to the other teams to catch up, not NASCAR to change the system. As mentioned, the problem is that racing is not a field sport and there is no reason for a playoff-style finish to the championship. A standard championship that rewards based on results throughout the season has the small added benefit that it makes it harder to win consecutive championships, as I explained above. To preempt the inevitable responses, I know it's here to stay and moaning ain't gonna do nothing, and I know Jimmy farts greatness and would succeed under any championship. I don't want to see a change to stop Jimmy winning, I just want something that makes the first 2/3rds of the season feel a little more relevant. |
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| Author: | Andre [ Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cup/NWS/Trucks @ Phoenix International Raceway |
I don't really think the Chase is the issue, here. Sure, it feels a bit strange to put Jimmie's titles alongside someone like Gordon's or Earnhardt's, primarily because it's just a completely different era - not completely unlike the "modern era" vs. the Grand National days. Still, like Freshgeek is saying, they're still all playing under the same set of rules. Like the Chase or not, that 48 bunch is the only one consistently stepping up to the plate. Take a look at yesterday. 48 - Dominated the crap out of the race. Pulled out to 4 second leads, and when Denny Hamlin got right on his bumper late in the going, he pulled away by another two seconds after that. 5 - Pretty decent run, all things considered. Took quite a while to get going, but really not bad. 24 - Typical Jeff Gordon run as of late. Fade back to the teens, then make up a bit of ground to just barely hang on to a top ten. 2 - Great run, just faded when it counted. 14 - Struggled, and couldn't keep it in the top 20, then got caught up. 42 - Another decent run. Instead of going on about the rest of the Chasers, the point is this - that team has stepped up their game so much while the others have just floundered. Hate the 48 if you must, but they're just on their game - I somehow doubt things would be that much different under the old system, IMO. Oh, and Denny Hamlin's a whinier bitch than Kyle Busch ever was. |
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| Author: | ChrisTRD [ Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cup/NWS/Trucks @ Phoenix International Raceway |
You guys comparing the points right now in the chase with the the old system... the points would be much different because everyone would race differently. I hate when people compare the standings currently with the old format.... |
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| Author: | Andre [ Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cup/NWS/Trucks @ Phoenix International Raceway |
I agree. The point I'm trying to bring up, though, is that if they were still under the old system (and racing as they would be), the 48 guys would still be the guys to beat. They can excel on any kind of track, except maybe road courses, but even then, they're far from bad at them. That's just me, though. |
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| Author: | ChrisTRD [ Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cup/NWS/Trucks @ Phoenix International Raceway |
I'm tired of hearing people bitch about this system and that system.... the 48 team is the best right now, plain and simple. I don't care what points system is being used. |
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| Author: | Cartman [ Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cup/NWS/Trucks @ Phoenix International Raceway |
BlueCelicaTRD wrote: I'm tired of hearing people bitch about this system and that system.... the 48 team is the best right now, plain and simple. I don't care what points system is being used. I agree. The argument is growing old on me. It's been five years, the Chase is here to stay, like it or not, and until someone gets their strategy right (or has the balls to wreck JJ), nothing's going to change up front. Still doesn't change my opinion on Jimmie tho. Perfect bastard. |
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| Author: | Gael [ Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cup/NWS/Trucks @ Phoenix International Raceway |
It's a shame that Reutimann/Hornish failboated at Texas and wrecked Johnson.. would've been nice to see him clinch at Phoenix. |
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| Author: | Tommy Vercetti [ Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cup/NWS/Trucks @ Phoenix International Raceway |
Fuck Jimmie Johnson. Not watching Homestead.
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| Author: | Cartman [ Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cup/NWS/Trucks @ Phoenix International Raceway |
Tommy Vercetti wrote: Fuck Jimmie Johnson. +1Tommy Vercetti wrote: Not watching Homestead. Me neither. I'm going there. At least I won't have to deal with the godawful commentary from Jerry Punch for another year.
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| Author: | EvilVendingMachine [ Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cup/NWS/Trucks @ Phoenix International Raceway |
Andre wrote: I agree. The point I'm trying to bring up, though, is that if they were still under the old system (and racing as they would be), the 48 guys would still be the guys to beat. They can excel on any kind of track, except maybe road courses, but even then, they're far from bad at them. That's just me, though. They'd be much easier to beat though, as they'd have to excel at EVERY race, and not just the final ten. |
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| Author: | Andre [ Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cup/NWS/Trucks @ Phoenix International Raceway |
The points would be closer, yes. Harder to beat? That's a stretch, considering the way they run when the pressure's on. |
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| Author: | ChrisTRD [ Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cup/NWS/Trucks @ Phoenix International Raceway |
I'll probably end up flipping to the race during football commercials... Dolphins are on Thursday night so no real important game for me to watch until the Cheatriots and Jests @ 4. |
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| Author: | Philthy82 [ Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cup/NWS/Trucks @ Phoenix International Raceway |
Agree that it's pointless to talk about champions under this system vs champions under the old system. Also agree it's pointless to wish for the old system back. But there's nothing wrong with calling this system a shit system and pointing out why. And why is it always pointed out that everyone has just as equal a chance of success under the chase? No fucking shit. |
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| Author: | T.I. [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cup/NWS/Trucks @ Phoenix International Raceway |
Johnson is the man to beat. In 20 years you'll all reminisce and talk about how great he was, just like with any other great driver. He's done in four years what took Jeff Gordon seven to do. He's won 46 races in 8 full years. The guy's a damn legend in the making. |
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| Author: | ChrisTRD [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cup/NWS/Trucks @ Phoenix International Raceway |
I'm going out on a limb and saying Jimmie will win the Championship.
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