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2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix
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Author:  alex1369 [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

I dont understand!! In China last year the RBR cars werent 1st and 2nd and had not controled at the front... and they raced each other with Mark coming out on top against Vettel with 2 laps to go. And everythig was ok at RBR.

But now they control the front in Sepang, and like in Turkey 2010 and team bosses are mad, because they are fighting for positions??!!!! I dont understand - its what we fans want!! Isnt it??
Sure crashes can happen when they fight for positions... but there should be always some respect between team mates on track to not to crash the cars..

It looks like im the only one happy that there was fight for the lead... and i really enyoyed it.
Usually the drivers moan "i cant overtake - do something with strategy" - Vettel

Here we got a great battle for the lead and some pepole (fans) still not happy. What do you want more??

Author:  Neil [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

Mika Kimi wrote:
I can't believe that people are actually defending Vettel. I'm not a fan but I know he's a great driver and overall a lot better than Webber, but the first pitstop was too early which made this Webber's race.

I enjoyed watching the fight but this wasn't a fair fight, since Webber was cruising and could only defend himself when Vettel was already within a second of him. If he was aware of Vettel's intentions, would Vettel still be able to catch him? If so, then Vettel would deserve this victory but this isn't the case now.


I can believe it. I personally think that he had every right to fight for it. Yea, he had a team order. But so what? I've ignored orders at work before because I believed they weren't the right thing to do and I bet you have too.

People are just pissed because Webber has hidden behind this facade of always getting the short end of the stick and never getting any luck. He's had plenty of luck. He's also been in a car that is widely regarded as the class of the field (except last year probably) since mid-2009. What's he done with that? Nothing. A few wins here and there, lots of whining and not a lot else.

What Vettel demonstrated today is that he has the killer instinct. This is why Vettel is a 3 times World Champion and quite probably a future legend. Webber will be merely a footnote in the annuls of the Formula 1 history books. How often has Webber shown this kind of killer instinct?

Being nice, playing by the rules and having class do not make you a triple world champion. Ask Senna, ask Schumacher and ask Piquet.

Author:  Bleu [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

ellis wrote:
codename_47 wrote:
Actually Webber wasn't champion in 2010 purely becaus it IS a team sport.

At the start of the race it seemed like there were 2 optimum strategies to win the race.
Red Bull put Webber on one and Vettel another.
They pitted Webber early and Alonso felt forced to cover him, but when neither could get through the traffic it turned out Vettel's late pitting strategy became the optimum one and he was champion.

Red Bull had 2 cards to play to Ferrari's 1...that's just how it worked out.


But whichever Red Bull card they played, Ferrari were ultimately going to decide which Red Bull won the title. Had they covered Vettel instead of Webber then Webbers strategy would've worked better and he'd probably have won the title. So it wasn't like Vettel got the optimum strategy that weekend - it just worked because Ferrari made a tactical error and it screwed Webber.


Webber was screwed anyway. He would have been the one who was stuck behind Petrov and I don't think he would have done any better than 8th.

Author:  EsbenT [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2013/03/ ... akespeare/

Some good points made here.

Author:  Mika Kimi [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

alex1369 wrote:
I dont understand!! In China last year the RBR cars werent 1st and 2nd and had not controled at the front... and they raced each other with Mark coming out on top against Vettel with 2 laps to go. And everythig was ok at RBR.

But now they control the front in Sepang, and like in Turkey 2010 and team bosses are mad, because they are fighting for positions??!!!! I dont understand - its what we fans want!! Isnt it??
Sure crashes can happen when they fight for positions... but there should be always some respect between team mates on track to not to crash the cars..

It looks like im the only one happy that there was fight for the lead... and i really enyoyed it.
Usually the drivers moan "i cant overtake - do something with strategy" - Vettel

Here we got a great battle for the lead and some pepole (fans) still not happy. What do you want more??


RBR wanted both of them to save tyres, since they were on the "edge with graining". Mercedes might have caught them.

nea wrote:
Mika Kimi wrote:
I can't believe that people are actually defending Vettel. I'm not a fan but I know he's a great driver and overall a lot better than Webber, but the first pitstop was too early which made this Webber's race.

I enjoyed watching the fight but this wasn't a fair fight, since Webber was cruising and could only defend himself when Vettel was already within a second of him. If he was aware of Vettel's intentions, would Vettel still be able to catch him? If so, then Vettel would deserve this victory but this isn't the case now.


I can believe it. I personally think that he had every right to fight for it. Yea, he had a team order. But so what? I've ignored orders at work before because I believed they weren't the right thing to do and I bet you have too.

People are just pissed because Webber has hidden behind this facade of always getting the short end of the stick and never getting any luck. He's had plenty of luck. He's also been in a car that is widely regarded as the class of the field (except last year probably) since mid-2009. What's he done with that? Nothing. A few wins here and there, lots of whining and not a lot else.

What Vettel demonstrated today is that he has the killer instinct. This is why Vettel is a 3 times World Champion and quite probably a future legend. Webber will be merely a footnote in the annuls of the Formula 1 history books. How often has Webber shown this kind of killer instinct?

Being nice, playing by the rules and having class do not make you a triple world champion. Ask Senna, ask Schumacher and ask Piquet.


I agree that he had the right to fight for it, but could you call this a fight? Vettel could might as well be chasing a Marussia, to exaggerate a little bit, since Webber was cruising and saving tyres like the team ordered. Vettel is a better driver, definitely, but this wasn't a fair fight.

Author:  aerogi [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

EsbenT wrote:
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2013/03/25/what-sebastian-vettel-might-learn-from-shakespeare/

Some good points made here.


Good read. I fully agree with all what is written there!

Author:  Ospi [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

nea wrote:
Mika Kimi wrote:
I can't believe that people are actually defending Vettel. I'm not a fan but I know he's a great driver and overall a lot better than Webber, but the first pitstop was too early which made this Webber's race.

I enjoyed watching the fight but this wasn't a fair fight, since Webber was cruising and could only defend himself when Vettel was already within a second of him. If he was aware of Vettel's intentions, would Vettel still be able to catch him? If so, then Vettel would deserve this victory but this isn't the case now.


I can believe it. I personally think that he had every right to fight for it. Yea, he had a team order. But so what? I've ignored orders at work before because I believed they weren't the right thing to do and I bet you have too.

People are just pissed because Webber has hidden behind this facade of always getting the short end of the stick and never getting any luck. He's had plenty of luck. He's also been in a car that is widely regarded as the class of the field (except last year probably) since mid-2009. What's he done with that? Nothing. A few wins here and there, lots of whining and not a lot else.

What Vettel demonstrated today is that he has the killer instinct. This is why Vettel is a 3 times World Champion and quite probably a future legend. Webber will be merely a footnote in the annuls of the Formula 1 history books. How often has Webber shown this kind of killer instinct?

Being nice, playing by the rules and having class do not make you a triple world champion. Ask Senna, ask Schumacher and ask Piquet.

It's not just about him and Webber though, it's a pretty massive sign of disrespect towards his team as well, and that includes the mechanics, the engineers and everyone down to the janitor. It's a team sport, and you can be guaranteed that if a mechanic consciously disobeyed his team, he would be booted so hard out the door he wouldn't be walking for a week. Vettel has now shown that he believes he is above the team, that he can more or less choose to do what he pleases and get away with it, and when he well knows that no one else could get away with the same, it's a bit of a spit in the face to everyone else who works so hard to help him achieve what he has done, and what he will continue to do.

Author:  Neil [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

Mika Kimi wrote:
Vettel is a better driver, definitely, but this wasn't a fair fight.


It's a sport, fairness has nothing to do with it, the desire to win is everything. You could argue that it wasn't fair that Prost won in 1993 because he had a car that was easily the class of the field. You could argue the same about Schumacher 2001-2004 too. Or Hill in '96. Does it make their achievements any less valid because you could argue that it wasn't fair?

I get what you're saying, I just disagree with this notion of fairness that people are clinging to.

I don't agree with Rosberg not passing Hamilton. At the same time I'm glad Hamilton didn't let him past, despite him feeling that Rosberg was more deserving of the podium.

EDIT

Vettel should never have apologised for the move though. Even if he didn't mean it (hahahahahahahahaha) he could have given the place back. It's plainly obvious he meant to and the apology is just PR bullshit.

Author:  ellis [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

All of the points made seem to ignore the fact that Webber has done the exact same thing. The difference between the 2 situations is Vettel got the job done whilst Webber didn't. In fact that's a rather good way to sum up the last 3 years.

Author:  Tobias [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

gave me a good laugh

Spoiler:
Image

Author:  highgroove [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

Although Vettel is a complete ballsack, and showed complete disrespect towards his team mate, they are both racing drivers who were doing exactly that. If Webber deserved the victory, wouldn't he have crossed the line before Vettel? Vettel simply out raced him and Mark lost. Ultimately, isn't this what it should come down to? Who gives a flying fck about the politics...

Author:  Tobias [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

highgroove wrote:
Who gives a flying fck about the politics...


a team spending $300 million per year on promoting its product.

Author:  Philthy82 [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

nea wrote:
Mika Kimi wrote:
I can't believe that people are actually defending Vettel. I'm not a fan but I know he's a great driver and overall a lot better than Webber, but the first pitstop was too early which made this Webber's race.

I enjoyed watching the fight but this wasn't a fair fight, since Webber was cruising and could only defend himself when Vettel was already within a second of him. If he was aware of Vettel's intentions, would Vettel still be able to catch him? If so, then Vettel would deserve this victory but this isn't the case now.


I can believe it. I personally think that he had every right to fight for it. Yea, he had a team order. But so what? I've ignored orders at work before because I believed they weren't the right thing to do and I bet you have too.

People are just pissed because Webber has hidden behind this facade of always getting the short end of the stick and never getting any luck. He's had plenty of luck. He's also been in a car that is widely regarded as the class of the field (except last year probably) since mid-2009. What's he done with that? Nothing. A few wins here and there, lots of whining and not a lot else.

What Vettel demonstrated today is that he has the killer instinct. This is why Vettel is a 3 times World Champion and quite probably a future legend. Webber will be merely a footnote in the annuls of the Formula 1 history books. How often has Webber shown this kind of killer instinct?

Being nice, playing by the rules and having class do not make you a triple world champion. Ask Senna, ask Schumacher and ask Piquet.


Fucking hell I'm tired of hearing this moronic point of view. IT'S NOT ABOUT WHETHER YOU LIKE TEAM ORDERS. The point is if one driver is told to slow by the team and the other ignores those orders, it's neither respectful to your team nor particularly hard to beat your teammate who's been told to slow up. That's about as ballsy, gritty and "killer instinct" as bringing a gun to a knife fight.

Author:  kals [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

It is not a killer instict. It is a ruthless streak that typically only the very best have. See Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Piquet, etc...

Author:  Mika Kimi [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

Philthy82 wrote:
Fucking hell I'm tired of hearing this moronic point of view. IT'S NOT ABOUT WHETHER YOU LIKE TEAM ORDERS. The point is if one driver is told to slow by the team and the other ignores those orders, it's neither respectful to your team nor particularly hard to beat your teammate who's been told to slow up. That's about as ballsy, gritty and "killer instinct" as bringing a gun to a knife fight.


Pretty much what I meant, but I think better explained than me. :thumbsup:

Author:  aerogi [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

ellis wrote:
All of the points made seem to ignore the fact that Webber has done the exact same thing. The difference between the 2 situations is Vettel got the job done whilst Webber didn't. In fact that's a rather good way to sum up the last 3 years.


But Webber was told to go into 'conservative' modus with his engine.

He lost quite some time because of this after the final pitstops. When you are told to slow down and go into conservative modus, you will 'loose' some adrenaline, your focus will be a few percentages less.

And all of a sudden your teammate ignores a direct order from the team and attacks you basically at full throttle.

If your boss is telling you to NOT do something, what would you do? If I would do I'd get probably sacked.

Author:  kals [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

aerogi wrote:
ellis wrote:
All of the points made seem to ignore the fact that Webber has done the exact same thing. The difference between the 2 situations is Vettel got the job done whilst Webber didn't. In fact that's a rather good way to sum up the last 3 years.


But Webber was told to go into 'conservative' modus with his engine.

He lost quite some time because of this after the final pitstops. When you are told to slow down and go into conservative modus, you will 'loose' some adrenaline, your focus will be a few percentages less.

And all of a sudden your teammate ignores a direct order from the team and attacks you basically at full throttle.

If your boss is telling you to NOT do something, what would you do? If I would do I'd get probably sacked
.




Mark Webber after the 2011 British GP wrote:
Of course I ignored the team because I wanted to try and get a place. Seb was doing his best, I was doing my best. I wasn't going to crash with anyone. I try to do my best with the amount of one way conversation I was having - I was trying to do my best to pass the guy in front.

Author:  FlyingJohn [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

I made a Ecel file of all the the (broadcasted) radio communications (from lap20), pitstops, difference (of Vettel vs Webber)

For those interested : http://www.mediafire.com/view/?2ud7nmd6ulcffzr

Author:  StanV [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

Man, imagine there was a TBK after Suzuka 1990.

Author:  Mika Kimi [ Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

kals wrote:
Mark Webber after the 2011 British GP wrote:
Of course I ignored the team because I wanted to try and get a place. Seb was doing his best, I was doing my best. I wasn't going to crash with anyone. I try to do my best with the amount of one way conversation I was having - I was trying to do my best to pass the guy in front.


At least this is honest.

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