2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:09 pm

so when did they changed the concept of pure racing?

ellis · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:09 pm

aerogi wrote:

a team to which he owes so so so much

Woah woah woah. Owes? He owes them nothing and the team owes him nothing. They pay him to drive racing cars and he does it very very well. Red Bull didn't "give" Vettel titles, Vettel EARNED those titles. And those titles are just as important, if not more important to Red Bull than they are to Seb.

ellis · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:11 pm

Soul Reaver wrote:

Vettel, who's already had a lot of perks from team order is now disrespecting one, in the early season, when RBR finally tried to give something back to Webber when it was a perfect moment for that. I will never aprove this move coming out of Vettel and I would aprove it coming out of Webber 100% of the times.

Red Bull had to give Webber a win in Interlagos 2011 by slowing down Seb. He'd already walked to the title, whilst Mark hadn't even won a race yet, and he needed Sebastians help to secure runner up. So let's not sit here and pretend that Red Bull live to screw Mark.

Soul Reaver · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:14 pm

What Red Bull did to him in 2010 and so forth can't get paid with just one victory not by 1000 miles. Plus he helped other times. Anyway, I know RBR don't live for screwing Webber, that's nonsense. But in 2010 and other years. When the Drivers title was at stake, the team orders always were to Vettel, even when Webber had a good chance at the title. And then when Webber was ahead and they let Vettel fight, they always got that image of the team who let people fight each other. But when Vettel is at the front is always the other way. They are the hypocrites. But this was the first time some real justice was being done.

Anyway, following the logic that nobody owns nothing to anyone. I hope next time Webber just takes Vettel out of the race then. Since nobody cares with him anyway.

RtN · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:18 pm

What did they do to him in 2010?

Apart from give him the car and the support to reach the final round in the lead, that is.

kals · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:22 pm

If anyone wants to give Webber symapthy or show anger towards Vettel, shall we discuss Silverstone 2011 again, or perhaps Mark's attitude towards supporting Seb at the end of last season?

DEMENTOR · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:23 pm

Well I've just finished watching the race, and it wasn't too bad. Some good racing in parts...and lol moments.

The Red Bull situation, hmmm, well. Why did they unban team orders? That's what it comes down to IMO.
I don't particularly like to see Vettel winning, but fair play to him just going for it. And if Webber felt Vettel disobeyed team orders, why didn't he just get right back at him?

Oh, and that was one of the best podium scenes I've seen. No one really feeling comfortable, and Webbers body language were classic. I thought that the podium interviews were a bit gimmicky, but I'm glad they are doing it now.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:25 pm

Good luck trying to impose team orders from now on, red bull.

Webber will be like "year fuck that"...and overtake/defend Vettel will know this is Webber's mindset and defend/overtake....

I predict another Turkey 2010 before years out....

Soul Reaver · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:25 pm

Soul Reaver wrote:

What Red Bull did to him in 2010 and so forth can't get paid with just one victory not by 1000 miles. Plus he helped other times. Anyway, I know RBR don't live for screwing Webber, that's nonsense. But in 2010 and other years. When the Drivers title was at stake, the team orders always were to Vettel, even when Webber had a good chance at the title. And then when Webber was ahead and they let Vettel fight, they always got that image of the team who let people fight each other. But when Vettel is at the front is always the other way. They are the hypocrites. But this was the first time some real justice was being done.

Anyway, following the logic that nobody owns nothing to anyone. I hope next time Webber just takes Vettel out of the race then. Since nobody cares with him anyway.

Big edit

ellis · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:33 pm

Soul Reaver wrote:

Anyway, following the logic that nobody owns nothing to anyone. I hope next time Webber just takes Vettel out of the race then. Since nobody cares with him anyway.

And if he does that (on purpose) then he'll get sacked on the spot, JEV will get the seat.

Soul Reaver · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:34 pm

kals wrote:

If anyone wants to give Webber symapthy or show anger towards Vettel, shall we discuss Silverstone 2011 again, or perhaps Mark's attitude towards supporting Seb at the end of last season?

Yeah, after Silvertone 2011 that RBR showed how hypocrite they are. They do team orders when the drivers points are at stake only if it goes on favour of Vettel.

And 2010 I'm pissed because Webber had the chance of his life, Vettel could and should wait a year to have his chance. If any team orders should be given, it should be in favour of Webber. Abu Dhabi may prove in a way that that wouldn't work, but that is only looking back one round. Anyway, a lot happened that year, was the craziest year for a battle of the drivers title. Won't go with all the ifs. I just think they finally were giving something back for Webber, something he deserved, and anyway, Webber only slowed because it was an gentlemen agreement.

If you don't want team orders in F1, then only allow one car per team. Even then it would be things happening under the blankes and sometimes way more obvious.

Soul Reaver · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:35 pm

ellis wrote:

Soul Reaver wrote:

Anyway, following the logic that nobody owns nothing to anyone. I hope next time Webber just takes Vettel out of the race then. Since nobody cares with him anyway.

And if he does that (on purpose) then he'll get sacked on the spot, JEV will get the seat.

Whatever, he OWED that to Vettel. :thumbsup:

ellis · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:41 pm

Soul Reaver wrote:

Yeah, after Silvertone 2011 that RBR showed how hypocrite they are. They do team orders when the drivers points are at stake only if it goes on favour of Vettel.

Except for today. And Brazil 2011. Selective memory.

Quote:

Vettel could and should wait a year to have his chance

What a complete load of arse, lol.

"Hey Seb, put off your title charge. I know you've never won it before, but we're going to ask you not to win it because Mark is getting old."

RtN · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:55 pm

Webber blew it in 2010 all by himself. It's not Vettel's fault that he couldn't beat Alonso.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:58 pm

Actually Webber wasn't champion in 2010 purely becaus it IS a team sport.

At the start of the race it seemed like there were 2 optimum strategies to win the race.
Red Bull put Webber on one and Vettel another.
They pitted Webber early and Alonso felt forced to cover him, but when neither could get through the traffic it turned out Vettel's late pitting strategy became the optimum one and he was champion.

Red Bull had 2 cards to play to Ferrari's 1...that's just how it worked out.

ellis · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:03 pm

codename_47 wrote:

Actually Webber wasn't champion in 2010 purely becaus it IS a team sport.

At the start of the race it seemed like there were 2 optimum strategies to win the race.
Red Bull put Webber on one and Vettel another.
They pitted Webber early and Alonso felt forced to cover him, but when neither could get through the traffic it turned out Vettel's late pitting strategy became the optimum one and he was champion.

Red Bull had 2 cards to play to Ferrari's 1...that's just how it worked out.

But whichever Red Bull card they played, Ferrari were ultimately going to decide which Red Bull won the title. Had they covered Vettel instead of Webber then Webbers strategy would've worked better and he'd probably have won the title. So it wasn't like Vettel got the optimum strategy that weekend - it just worked because Ferrari made a tactical error and it screwed Webber.

ryan86 · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:04 pm

The whole race today left a bad taste in my mouth, like a Sepang shaped piece of liquorice.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:08 pm

ellis wrote:

codename_47 wrote:

Actually Webber wasn't champion in 2010 purely becaus it IS a team sport.

At the start of the race it seemed like there were 2 optimum strategies to win the race.
Red Bull put Webber on one and Vettel another.
They pitted Webber early and Alonso felt forced to cover him, but when neither could get through the traffic it turned out Vettel's late pitting strategy became the optimum one and he was champion.

Red Bull had 2 cards to play to Ferrari's 1...that's just how it worked out.

But whichever Red Bull card they played, Ferrari were ultimately going to decide which Red Bull won the title. Had they covered Vettel instead of Webber then Webbers strategy would've worked better and he'd probably have won the title. So it wasn't like Vettel got the optimum strategy that weekend - it just worked because Ferrari made a tactical error and it screwed Webber.

Yeah, the point I was making, thanks for making it clearer than I ever could!

codename_47 · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:09 pm

ellis wrote:

codename_47 wrote:

Actually Webber wasn't champion in 2010 purely becaus it IS a team sport.

At the start of the race it seemed like there were 2 optimum strategies to win the race.
Red Bull put Webber on one and Vettel another.
They pitted Webber early and Alonso felt forced to cover him, but when neither could get through the traffic it turned out Vettel's late pitting strategy became the optimum one and he was champion.

Red Bull had 2 cards to play to Ferrari's 1...that's just how it worked out.

But whichever Red Bull card they played, Ferrari were ultimately going to decide which Red Bull won the title. Had they covered Vettel instead of Webber then Webbers strategy would've worked better and he'd probably have won the title. So it wasn't like Vettel got the optimum strategy that weekend - it just worked because Ferrari made a tactical error and it screwed Webber.

Yeah, the point I was making, thanks for making it clearer than I ever could!

Tho it is a comment on how having all your eggs in one basket isn't always the best decision for the team.

ryan86 · PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:15 pm

Ferrari put all their eggs in Schumacher's basket. Ross Brawn issued an instruction to Irvine to stay behind an ailing Schumacher in France.Schumacher dropped his basket and broke his (l)eggs the following week. That 1 point lost there cost Irvine the World Championship.

(I'm half-expecting some people to come in and say they were glad it did because Irvine would have been a terrible champion)

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2013 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

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