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I wondering why I am going into a detailed post about Ellis' diatribe, I'm not a fanboy but some of the stuff being posted is flat out wrong. I'll be told I'm wrong. It's funny how you'll defend Vettel at practically every venture whether it's the incident with Button last year, his midrace tantrums, his incident with Webber in Malaysia and comments in said race, he can't do no wrong in your eyes but take zero qualms about launching and aiming criticism at Alonso. From his driving, to his comments off the circuit to whatever.



To be expected but seriously? Everyone has their opinion about 2007. I don't even want to get into it. Ron Dennis acted like a fucking idiot. Lewis Hamilton acted like a brat and Fernando Alonso acted like the mother of all brats and an utter idiot but the reason for it all going to shit? Communication. I think you'll be surprised at how drivers are able to co-exist if they know the situation they are going into. Rather than being told/assuming one thing and it completely changing a la 2007, 1988/89, 1986, 1996 e.t.c.

I'm curious why Vettel wouldn't lose his shit either? There are numerous incidents with Mark which hint he's no sure bet either. The only one of the current "top lot" you'd say wouldn't say/do anything is Kimi. Lewis, Nando and Vettel all have form for it.

I find the idea that Alonso fucked up in 2010 and 2012 remarkable. He wasn't perfect but perfect Formula One seasons are rare as fuck and only happen in dominant cars. Alonso more than made up for any errors in 2010 and put himself and the team in a position to win and the mother of all strategy mistakes cost him and the team a World Championships. Would it have been easier without the Monaco error of losing a single point in Spa? Sure! But the same thing can be said for the Champion Vettel. Or Lewis. Or Webber. They all fucked up also, Mark probably the biggest in Korea. Ultimately Fernando was leading into Abu Dhabi and had recovered from said mistakes. Ferrari fucked up that title with a stupid decision to cover Webber and not think about the gap to Petrov, Rosberg and whoeever else pitted.

In 2012 he drove one of the best seasons of all time, his one error all season was critically punished [Japan 2012], did he have days where he couldn't extract as much as Massa in the last few rounds? Particularly in qualifying? Definitely you won't find me arguing that but he more than made up for it on raceday. I can't remember but I'm pretty sure he was never off the podium after Singapore. You can't criticise Alonso for "bottling" it and then hold up Vettel as the bastion of truth. How Vettel escaped his and Webber's idiocy on the first Lap on the Brazilian GP baffles me. He cut across Senna like an idiot and is lucky his car was in one peice, would that have been bottling it? but as he's the victor his fans will paint the story however they like.

Ultimately if you win any errors are ignored and that's far enough but let's not paint a different picture to what went on.



I find stuff like this utterly stupid. In hindsight yes we can go Oh! he should have joined Brawn/Red Bull for 2009, however Honda had just produced the mother of all shitwagons in the Earth Livery Car whilst Red Bull had proven themselves an unreliable midfield mess up to that point. We can just as easily say Kimi should have lowered his asking price and gone to Mclaren in 2010 and won a title.



Why does this idea or narrative still exist. For Alonso, For Vettel, For Whomever. Do you think all 100 mechanics work on Alonso's car and Massa's is an afterthought? They split free practices testing new parts, they share setups, they share data. Shockingly they do work together, there isn't enough practice time anymore to go lone cowboy or simply focus on one car, you need to hoard and process all the fucking data. Ferrari have never taken a front wing from Massa and stuck it on Alonso's car either! and they would have more reasoning for doing so over the past 3 years than Red Bull had when they had both drivers in a WDC fight!



This is utter nonsense. Back it up. Provide quotes of his criticism at every race or his "non stop" criticism. It'll be amusing to see what's considered "criticism", I'll bet you'll find half a handful of such instances time it's quotes such as

:- "We have to improve in qualifying",
:- "It’s not normal to see one Ferrari out of Q3, the other one tenth in Q3. But is what we deserve, we were not good enough today"
:- "It is something we need to answer here - if Silverstone was just a one-off and we didn't have the right balance or the right set-up for that particular circuit, or is it just really that everyone else did a big step forward and we did a step backwards?

If this is what counts as criticism than I've just got to laugh. Stating facts is criticising the team? The worst thing you'll probably find is "We've got to start bring parts which improve the car". Can you blame him? The Ferrari team brought five different front wings during 2012 and ultimately kept using their Barcelona spec until USA or so because every single one was rubbish. For a team with that sort of resources it's embarassingly bad.

I could go on and on and on but what's the point? I visit these forums once every 4 or 5 days, by the time I remember to read they'll be a ton more to respond to.



Because with ellis its a nigh on common trait. Defend Vettel to the cows come home. Criticise Alonso at every venture. I understand Vettel is ellis' favourite driver, I just don't see the need for the ridiculous double standard. Don't get me wrong ellis is/was one of the best posters when I read here more regularly, but whenever I've visited when it comes to Vettel theres a tunnel-vision.

With many of the forums I visit Alonso is consistently the most disliked driver. Fair Enough, you either like him or think he's a shittier Dick Dastardly. I just find some of the criticism that's come out since Hungary for a meeting that probably wasn't about him, and probably the most unlikely of moves given it'd take approx $70m to buy him out of his Ferrari contract remarkable.

Let's just all agree that Whitmarsh is an utter idiot.

Alonso maybe a prat, but good God I would rather him as he is than a shitty corporate yes man or heaven forbid a Paul Di Resta type.

If you want to look at what happens with a top class competitive and emotional driver when the teams fucks things up consistently look no further than Ayrton Senna in his last 2 years at McLaren. You now have the same thing with Alonso.

@

Magnifico - I'm not sure where you getting your assumptions from, but I'm far from a Vettel fan and rarely defend the guy. I don't need to back that up either, all you need to do is look back over the last couple of pages of the Hungarian GP thread where I actually disagree with ellis.

And as for ellis defending Vettel until the cows come home. Hmmm... seriously what are you talking about?

We're not making this stuff up just to bitch about Alonso, we've actually talked about this behaviour of Alonso's many times over the last couple of seasons. Now it has come up again because Montezemelo has had enough of his star driver using the media as an outlet for his frustration. You want proof, just go to Atlas F1, or Autosport.com or any F1 news outlet for the past couple of seasons and take a look. There's plenty to see.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

SLUG FEST!!!!!

Oh I love the smell of TBK-Light during Summer Break in the morning......reminds me of well....TBK

ummm.......yeah.....

i think vettel and alonso are both pretty cool

the only driver i don't like is max chilton

I dont like Vettel - cuz hes always 1st, everybody has problem with car, even Mark but Seb never has problems... its like hes bullet proof.
I was a MSchumacher fan when he was domminating, then came Lewis. Yeah i know im bitching now when other is winning, but that only means the team and driver has done a better job than others... unfortunatley.

But off track they are all cool guys when you meet them

But i dont care if Seb wins 150 races and 15 titles if all went down to the wire like in 2010 or 2012.
I just want that its nail bitting stuff in the last race or every race, in Hamiltons favours ofcourse

Interesting you say that...
2013 retirements:
Vettel 1
Webber 1
Alonso 1
Hamilton 0
Raikkonen 0

I can also remember Vettel retiring from the lead in previous seasons.

Plus, you make your own luck IMO.

Sooooooo...

It seems this Kimi-Ferrari rumour has legs.

_________________
Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.

Say that to Bourdais at Monza 2008 and Spa 2008

2014 engine around Monza
[youtubeidiot]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebpkJXJ7CFo[/youtubeidiot]

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

I love it.

I don't, unfortunately..

I don't like that at all

Can't watch it at work but I really don't give a flying fuck how the engines sound.

I prefer good racing with crap sounding engines over 90+ minutes parades with awesome sounding V12's.

Utopia would be Great racing with a variety of awesome engine's like V12's maybe H16's and whatever more but we don't live in a Utopia.

Bring back the V10's!

Yeesh.

It sounds like GP3's old tractor engine on double the revs.

_________________
Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.

Indeed

I simply can't reply to a post that long on a mobile, but if you think I defend everything Vettel does then it kinda renders the entire post pointless since that's a either completely misinformed, or a lie. I even criticised Vettel at the last race for his comments on Kimi, but even that's been ignored, or my post hasn't been read...which brings me back to what I said about it being pointless to reply.

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theRacingLine.net
SportsCarArchives.com

The sound is well let say will get used to it, BUT!!!!
It TAKES AGES IN THE HIGER GEARS to get to 16 000 rpm and i dont like that. I told everyone since they announced it - its like you are listening to you car!!!!!!!!! God damn!!!!!
They have to fuck up everything, fuck the green - its enough in the forests...
We want motorsport sound and not sound of wind!!!
Well have plenty of sound of wind in Formula E next year