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2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
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Author:  phil1993 [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
I'd still sign Pastor next year.

I want Bruno to do better. But I just can't see it unless he cuts out his minor errors and qualifies higher.
Author:  Gaara [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
Easier to cut out minor errors then major mental issues.
Author:  J.Morelli [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
Magnifico wrote:
J.Morelli wrote:
Honestly, what a stupid strategy by Ferrari on holding Alonso in the pits till the last 2 minutes left on Q3, stupidity at its best.

He could have improved throught Q3 If trying on succession of flying laps...Is it impossible to beat McLarens and Red Bulls? NO, it isn't, in this track specially, it's so tricky, it's far from being impossible. Do you see Maldonado? How did he do that? Alonso could have done at least a 2nd place....sh*t, it's a Championship being lost in small details. F*ck Ferrari!!!


:?

Fill the car up to do multiple hot laps = Car going slower on initial hot lap.
Tyres are good for 1 good hot lap at best before dropping off significantly on the next two or three, the grip just goes.
Multiple laps done on the tyres = Compromise performance at beginning of race on tyres that are already predicted to last less than 10 laps.
Alonso seems to have made an error in S1 as well which lost him a further 2 tenths or so, which would have made no difference to his position. The car simply wasn't quick enough this weekend and hasn't been in qualifying all year long.

Alonso has one top three dry qualifying position all year long [obviously tempered by the fact a potential pole in Monza was lost due to the ARB failure]. The car is mediocre in qualifying unless it's Wet.

Given how long, difficult and safety car prone the race is there is still a shot at a podium for him. Or P17 and a retirement.


There's no doubt Ferrari bet is the race indeed. But being difficult for overtaking, I worry a bit this race for Ferrari. Specially If we have a clean first lap and Hamilton leading to the win. I'm counting with a demolition derby on start made by Maldonaldo or something else, like a mistakes in Mclaren's strategy. We will see, it's one of those races where everything can happen too.
Author:  NVirkkula [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
kals wrote:
8 out of 14 races, Pastor has made it into Q3
1 out of 14 races, Bruno has made it into Q3

2 out of 13 races, Pastor has scored points
7 out 13 races, Bruno has scored points

What hurts Bruno is that Bottas is contracted to use his car in almost every P1 session. Quali is always going to be an issue if Bruno doesn't get the same amount of track time. Although this weekend I could easily be proved wrong with that opinion.



Senna has not been much faster during the weekends when Bottas hasn't borrowed his car. Senna has screw many of his own qualifyings by driving errors, for example today and at Spain, both times Maldonado did superb job.

It's going to be an interesting race tomorrow, tire wear will play a big role, maybe SC or two during the race, hot heads in the front row. It's going to be at least 7 or 8/10. 8)
Author:  phil1993 [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
I wish we could stop the 'Senna losing track time' bullshit.

Senna was quick in Budapest, despite giving his car up in FP1. Today he was shit, despite having all practice sessions.
Author:  kals [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
So you both missed this closing sentence??

kals wrote:
Although this weekend I could easily be proved wrong with that opinion.


;)

And besides, he wasn't that "shit" today... In Q1 he was only 0.3 slower than Maldonado.

Like NVirkkula says, it is minor driving errors in quali that affect him. But more often that not he makes up for it in the race.
Author:  phil1993 [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
Ah, sorry. Long day :p

It's minor errors but they become major problems. It's difficult to start 17th in a street circuit, doubly so to your reputation when you hit the wall three times in a weekend while your team mate is 2nd.

It may only have been 0.3s in Q1, but it's a situation that's been repeated at pretty much every circuit, sometimes with a larger gap. I want him to improve as I like him, but I can't see him doing so.
Author:  Tobias [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
the fact is that Maldonado also doesn't have the pressure Senna is facing right now. He's a good driver bringing millions of dollars and has won a grand prix. Senna is different in that Williams has someone waiting in the team to take his seat. The pressure is probably getting to Senna, which is sad to see.
Author:  Fish88 [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
Maldonado is a bigger talent, but he has no consistency at all. He screwed up so many point finishes that would place him miles in front of Senna (Melbourne, Monaco grid penalties, Valencia, Spa, and I'm sure I have left out some). Maldonado has better potential (if Williams ever manages to calm him down) than Senna for the future IMO.
Author:  Gaara [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
Yep, pressure can do a lot of damage. Ever since Maldonado's win, Senna has been under ever increasing pressure and it just hasn't been good for his mentality. Bottas waiting to get the seat just ads to that greatly.

But I suppose a driver should be able to cope under pressure.
Author:  kals [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
Yeah but despite that pressure from Maldonado's win Bruno has scored points multiple times, unlike his supposedly better team-mate.

Bottas on the other hand we know little about. He's race rusty but clearly a good talent for a team to invest in his future. I don't think he's ready for a 2013 race yet, but that's just me.
Author:  phil1993 [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
Both drivers should have scored more points. The fact that we can pinpoint so many lost points for Pastor highlights how ineffective Bruno has been by comparison.

Pastor is better than Bruno, but he definitely needs to calm down. I'd rather have Pastor in my team, even if Bruno has collected more points finishes. I find it astonishing that Pastor has been at the top so frequently, bested Barrichello, taken a win, pole and yet has finished in the points three times in 32 races.
Author:  kals [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
phil1993 wrote:
Both drivers should have scored more points.


:thumbsup:

Personally I wouldn't dump either for 2013, keep the consistency. Let's imagine that Williams has similar performance in 2013 and take Bottas a totally unknown quantity, over Senna who the team knows can bring home low end points on a consistent basis. Instead now they've got a driver who is in constant need of calming down and the team can't quite trust to score points because of his total inconsistency (Maldonado) and a driver who hasn't raced in over a year and never in F1 (Bottas). That's a risky strategy.

Senna is much better than he's given credit for, Maldonado has the reputation he deserves.
Author:  phil1993 [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
Bottas is already going there next year anyway, unless Senna pulls a miracle out of the bag.

I think this is one of the circuits where you need confidence, an attacking mentality and skill. I mean, look at the four winners: Alonso twice, Vettel and Hamilton. Maldonado 2nd and Senna 17th is probably reflective of their pure pace.

I admit that going from GP3 to F1 is risky, but would he be worse than Senna? That's the issue and it's a big one for Williams. Senna's problem is that his performances won't have captured the eye of any team bosses. I think he'd make a bloody good Le Mans driver though.
Author:  Gaara [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
All Senna needs to do is qualify better.

Being under such pressure to have Bottas sniffing around is not helping. Williams should be doing more to help Senna because they need the points still.
Author:  codename_47 [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
Williams: Always a team to treat their drivers compassionately and never one to completely dump a driver just when he needs their support.

Yeahhhh, good luck Bruno :cry:
Author:  Gaara [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
Yeaa, "Oh you won the championship for us? Here's the door, goodbye."
Author:  kals [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
phil1993 wrote:
Bottas is already going there next year anyway, unless Senna pulls a miracle out of the bag.

I think this is one of the circuits where you need confidence, an attacking mentality and skill. I mean, look at the four winners: Alonso twice, Vettel and Hamilton. Maldonado 2nd and Senna 17th is probably reflective of their pure pace.

I admit that going from GP3 to F1 is risky, but would he be worse than Senna? That's the issue and it's a big one for Williams. Senna's problem is that his performances won't have captured the eye of any team bosses. I think he'd make a bloody good Le Mans driver though.


Absolutely Bottas would be worse than Senna, and that statement alone pretty much shows how little people know Senna. 17th Senna's pure pace? That's pure rubbish. He was pretty decent in FP despite his scrapes and was on for a similar performance to Hungary.

Senna hasn't had the best F1 career but he's always had things against him...

- HRT, signed by Campos but not wanted by the new owners or management, so given second fiddle treatment throughout the year
- Renault, signed as test driver and given seat "vacated" by Heidfeld and despite almost no track time scored a couple of decent quali and race results
- Williams, signed as stop-gap before Bottas comes onboard, very good races (largely forgotten) in Malaysia and China and then scored good low-end points throughout the season despite continuous questions about his pace versus Maldonado

In F3 and GP2 Senna was always highly regarded and seen as a talent for the future, Maldonado despite being in the junior ranks for many years prior wasn't. They are both very good drivers.
Author:  phil1993 [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
I know Senna is a good driver. I don't doubt that. He's competent. But he's nothing utterly fantastic, which Maldonado can be.

I think my main point is that Senna's qualifying issues have remained throughout the season. Yes, he loses a lot of FP1 running but so do the Force India boys. As they did in 2010 and 2011 as well.

Another issue is that, in a car we know is bloody quick, Senna has done nothing that special. Maldonado has, and that gets noticed by sponsors and business people. As well as that, he's not done much to rectify qualifying deficiencies. Button usually sucks at qualifying, but progresses. Perez also has qualifying issues but usually moves forwards. Senna does a little, but not enough to get praise.
Author:  kals [ Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix
phil1993 wrote:
I know Senna is a good driver. I don't doubt that. He's competent. But he's nothing utterly fantastic, which Maldonado can be.


I don't disagree with the first part, but I do with the logic behind the second.

One day people will realise that to be fantastic, you need to have an end product to prove that. Those drivers are Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton. In his junior racing days Maldonado was quick but utterly reckless. In his F1 days he is exactly the same.

Now if Maldonado was dominating Senna in races as well as quali, I'd have a different opinion. Maldonado has scored 30 points in his F1 career, across just three points scoring finishes. That strike rate is anything other than fantastic. Williams will have to soon realise (which I'd be surprised if they haven't) that Maldonado's investment needs to show some serious returns (points mean $$$) or they'll have to reassess whether his Venezuelan $'s are worth the seat time.
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