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Probably both things.

And he's in very good company with the "rich and prestigious" of his generation. Luckily you're all spared the crap Briatore regularly spreads on Italian media, even without mentioning Putin or wars (he's simply too self-centered).

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"IT'S CHAOS! ABSOLUTE CHAOS!"

plus Putin gave him many millions so Russia could show itself as a host of a major event on that dog of track

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Motorsports trend for 2024: everything is a bad taste joke now

Piquet's shunning comes long before we started become less tolerant with homophobic jokes. 15 years ago, all the jokes he made about Senna would be acceptable and he was already sidelined here. But surely making jokes about his death didn't help him.

Since his F3 days he had a bad relationship with Brazilian press and it got even more sour when Senna came up.

Not really sure why my post was deleted for just basically saying "old people aren't perfect", but ok. Are we just not allowed to discuss the topic of racial slurs in F1 now?

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Not really sure why my post was deleted either. I just said how hard is it to not be racist?

Unless Nvurkula came back from the dead and started a biff.

And yet I´m not convinced that Piquet should be condemned for racism, at least not for the things that he said that trigger so many people now.
When I see the reactions of Brazilians, some say that he should not have said it like he did, others say that it´s a perfectly normal word in the context that he used it in. In a statement that Piquet made yesterday, he said:



And I believe him in that.
When you translate it to English, it gets a different meaning but you also change the context. I see Brazilian people in doubt if it was wrong of him or not, I see English speaking people go nuts but since they already see it in a different context, I don´t know if their opinion can be followed because they start from different facts to begin with.

At best, I can agree that Piquet said things that he had better not said, but we have to give him the benefit of doubt wheter it was intended to be racism or not. So I don´t agree with the worldwide reactions of the F1 world and the lifelong ban out of the paddock. At least not based on that single interview.

Given how Hamilton wants to silence the "old" guys I suppose it's telling that even the likes of Jackie Stewart have enough of his crusade act. Hamilton needs to watch out cause one day someone will tell him he's the old guy that ought to shut up The precedent has been set.

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07.04.1968 - Flower of Scotland when will we see your like again?
01.05.1994 - We'll never forget...

People misunderstanding/not understanding things and then freaking out about it forcibly in public?? Well I never......

Though to be honest, Piquet has always come across as a bit of a flog. That he is guilty of.

Here's a story, I was living in Brazil (not for long, 8 weeks) many years ago and I learnt Portuguese there. I was sitting with my mates 4 year old child, both watching a kids show learning colours. I was shocked to discover "negro" was the word for black

The way he said what he said though was unnecessary in the context. As I said before, you can call Lewis so many things negative without having to bring his race or skin colour into account.

From all the Brazillian sources I've read, the word isn't seen in brazil as bad as the N word is here, he refered to every driver in that race by their actual names, and that term, whatever level it is, for Hamilton.

Sorta like saying "There's Charles Leclerc, Carlos Sainz, Sergio Bottas and the yellow guy, the Ferrari powered drivers"

So it's not just the word used but the intent behind it, and we know enough about his intent to know he's a nasty piece of work at the best of times, so.....

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RIP Birmingham Wheels: here's some of the crash videos I recorded when it was there:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIaKIE ... 5t9d5PvoHA

Twitter:

http://www.twitter.com/paulhadsley

I never understand why people panic over these sort of news. If you lead a honest, authentic, empathic life, you will not get jumped on by some over-sensitive prick out of nowhere over a minor social blunder (or if it happens, nobody will back them up). You may make small mistakes - I've seen the word mulatto mentioned here -, but reasonable people will acknowledge and understand from context that you're not mean-spirited, and your attitude will make all the difference. It's all in the attitude. Just relax. Let the prick be the asshole.

This sort of witch-hunt mostly happens to assholes who aggressively and intentionally push the envelope, and lack empathy in their hearts and/or intrinsically feel superior. People living in a society have a feel for these things. It's obvious, and particularly in real life, the one that matters. Unless that's your case (i.e. there's an unaddressed superiority complex deep down), you will be fine, and you will be backed by 99.9% of people around you, minorities included.

It's also easy to bash people you don't know personally. It's easy to call a lifelong ban for Piquet or Vips like they had committed a murder, because we don't feel the consequences. But would you want your spouse, children or parents to get cancelled just because they don't always follow the linguistic etiquette? My mother uses the n-word regularly when I'm visiting my old home, but I don't mind correcting her, because what's the harm? I'm sure she would never utter it if there was a black person around. Like Coldtyre said, it's the context that matters. It's just a normal term that used to be neutral for most of her life, just like mulatto used to be neutral for me until a couple of years ago.

Racist person uses racial slurs as a weapon in order to offend designated groups. Non-racist person knows that words themselves doesn't have innate attributes, but the way they are used in certain context is what finally makes them offending, and thus the person avoids those words in those contexts. In other context, like in philosophical discussion or historical book research, you could utter racial slurs because everyone (hopefully) knows you are not trying to offend anyone but using them as examples of linguistic particulars


I know this is off-topic, but this is very interesting discussion. Maybe instead of deleting the posts, there should a dedicated topic for them?

haha same here. If someone is recording my mom, she would be prosecuted for racism, homophobia, transphobia and religious intolerance. The difference is that she doesn't express this kind of opinion publicly. After all, is not that hard to think a bit before using controversial words that might offend someone

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Motorsports trend for 2024: everything is a bad taste joke now

Offence is never given, just taken. In a few years time I’m fairly sure words you all use in everyday life will be considered highly offensive or racist. I presume you’ll all be happy with being cancelled (and potentially life ruined, job/pension lost) for daring to utter a word you’ve used most of your life which until one one designated it offensive, wasn’t offensive.

Has anyone asked Lewis if he was offended by what was said? (Genuine question) or has the world just assumed he should be?

There’s a saying that springs to mind, “if you are able to ruin someone’s life for something they say, you’re not the oppressed you’re the oppressor”.

Hamilton responded quite strongly. Don´t know if it was him or his PR men.
But most of the strong reactions came from English speaking people, because the N word has the most negative connotation in English.

But he didn’t say “the N word” did he? I though it was a term translated as “the black one”, o preto or something?

That's pretty much it. You nailed it.

The literal translation is kind of "the blackie one". Which is a word that could have as many different conotations depending on the context. But there is no doubt Piquet used it in a racist way.

Have any of you thought of....just not using those words at all and getting along with the world as it evolves instead of just drawing a line in the sand and saying "This far, and no further"

The leaps some people go to here to say "Well, I just wanna use these highly offensive words and fuck anyone else who gets offended by it". The world moves on and you either go with it or get left behind and lose your right to criticise anyone when you're turning your back to what the younger generations are deeming ok
Getting older happens to us all, but it doesn't mean we have to stay in our "bubble" and let the world carry on without us

The way I see it, it reminds me of what my doctor friend has told me about the latest medical techniques (also exemplified by a brilliant episode of the medical sitcom Scrubs) that Doctors spend 7 or 8 years in med school to learn how to treat people as well as their specialties in whatever area they focus on, etc, but basically by the time they've had a couple of years in a hospital, a third or more of the techniques they were taught are already out of date and their hospitals should be sending them on booster courses to keep their skills valid with the latest developments and treatments
There can be a type of older doctor who thinks "the old ways are the best" and still goes around using leaches to treat people, to use an extreme OTT example, and the hospital has to remove his licence not because they don't like or respect that doctor, just that he would not keep up with the newest medical practices not realise his ways are now so old fashioned they could cause uncessessary pain and suffering to a patient when a new method has been devised to do the same thing more efficiently and less intrusively

The world moves on, you can either keep up with it and stay part of it, or stay in your bubble and enjoy your own out-of-dateness.
Lets not pretend not one of us here look back on some things our parents or grandparents did and cringe, plus some things they had to do and feel sorry for them, but their lives are usually so different to ours in so many ways, we can't begin to imagine what they were like or how they handled it
Same with the younger generations too, their lives are different to ours again, filled with technologies and ways of communicating growing up we couldn't concieve of when we were that age.
We can't punish or criticise them for having a different attitude towards it all because they experienced it all first hand, we didn't

TL;DR We all become our grandads in the end....

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RIP Birmingham Wheels: here's some of the crash videos I recorded when it was there:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIaKIE ... 5t9d5PvoHA

Twitter:

http://www.twitter.com/paulhadsley

exactly, if you don't know if it's offensive, just don't say it

that's why the law requires us to have given names

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Motorsports trend for 2024: everything is a bad taste joke now