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https://www.formula1.com/en/video/2018/ ... clash.html

F1 site just released this video of Ocon onboard that goes from the moment he pits to the moment of the crash. It's interesting to note he was lapped by Verstappen right at the moment he leaves the pits and stays a whole lap receiving blue flags to give room for Hamilton.

In this situation, Irvine would still wax lyrical about how much faster Schumacher was.

the key problem is the pitstops

if there wasn't any of that, the race would had won by anyone with good racing pace

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The key problem is everything

Well that extended onboard with commentary is interesting. First off Ocon did a whole lap ignoring blue flags for Hamilton (was that even investigated? looked pretty blatant), he has a look down the inside of Max at turn 3 which Max covers off, Max then get's on the radio to say that Ocon is pushing him, and the team then says "understood, he is on fresh inters".......and that's all they say?

No OK let him by. He did after all show him a wheel down the inside at turn 3, and he is on tyres that are way quicker. Max then covers him off again at turn 1 and sees that he is on the outside having a go at him...and then turns in on him? after he has covered him off twice and complained that he is pushing him???

That to me is 90/10 fault on Max's behalf......but 100% Red Bull's fault for not informing Max to let him go when they could see that he was massively faster, acknowledged that he was on faster tyres and just seen him already have a look down the inside of him.

Verstappen did not turn into Ocon. Verstappen took his normal racingline, not expecting Ocon to try to overtake him there. Ocon is allowed to unlap himself in a safe way that does not hinder the car he is trying to overtake. This is not a normal overtake like fighting for position. Ocon should not force Verstappen on a wider line, causing him to miss the apex at Turn 2, losing speed in Turn 3, and losing speed on the straight all the way to Turn 4. Not with Hamilton close behind. If Verstappen choses not to lose time by allowing Ocon to unlap, that is his good right. Ocon is lapped, he is 16th, he should not have to expect from the race leader to lose time so he can unlap himself. If Ocon can do it on the straight (start/finish or before Turn 4) then yes, go for it. If he has to do it by forcing the race leader off line in corners, then brake and try again later. He should not have commited to the corner and to the pass. He should have allowed Verstappen to take his normal racing line.

It was Ocons responsibility to try to overtake Verstappen in a safe way, or otherwise bail out of it. He failed big time. He is the only one to blame.

It was Max's choice to defend his position and send Ocon to the outside. If he had just stayed on line, Ocon would have overtaken on the inside and neither would have lost much time. Max may have even benefitted from some DRS down to turn 4.

Out of interest, how can Ocon pass safely if Max is moving to the inside and cutting him off?

it's impossible to know what was going through Max his head at the exact moment. He could not communicate with Ocon, and Ocon could not tell Max what he wanted to do. So Ocon should have stayed behind until he knew what Max thought of it.
After the move, after the race, it is obvious for everyone that Ocon was faster and wanted to overtake. Seconds before the move, Red Bull and Verstappen didn't know yet. Didn't realise. Did not expect. Could not react.

In Le Mans, faster LMP1 cars also often choose to stay behind a slower GT car for a couple of corners because they are not sure if the car in front has seen him. (Yes I know, the speed difference is bigger so the eventual overtake is easier).

With all due respect Omega, your whole first paragraph is wrong. I agree that people should be more cautious like you describe in Endurance, but:

- We know what was going through Max's head because he expressed it over the radio: this guy is faster than me and is all over my ass. Also in his head: no way this guy is passing me, I will defend against him and block his moves.

- Max knew what was in Ocon's mind: to pass him at any cost. He saw him in his mirrors for the whole lap, he saw him showing his nose down the inside before, he saw him having a run on the straight (so much that he covered the inside), he saw him physically on his outside at turn 1.

Nobody in their sane mind will claim that Ocon's actions were not stupid, they were! And he was rightly given the worst possible penalty (short of a black flag). But don't make it sound like Max was taken out completely out of the blue. Sure he had no power over Ocon's stupid actions, but he had all the information, the time and space to do something about it and keep his victory safe, but he failed to do so.
If he wants to win close championships and fulfill his immense talent, he will need to learn how to leave the ego aside and deal with these situations - even more so that he's been making a lot of enemies on track and he will not be given space as easily as other cleaner, more likeable drivers.

Yes there were blue flags but no they weren't ignored. The team acknowledged the flags and gave Ocon an instruction as to when and where to let Hamilton by, yet by the time he reached the straight (past pit entry) the blue flags stopped.

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If the video F1 posted is correct, then he said this seconds before Ocon tried to pass him.

This is what you think, but we don't know that.


This is only your interpretation. We DON'T know what was in Verstappen's mind. Only seconds before the move, Verstappen started to ask his team what that Force India was doing, the answer of the team was too basic. Before being able to decide about what to do in the situation, the move happened.

You say I'm wrong, and your arguments against me are only interpretations of what you think was in someones head. Which is of no worth.

This stupid spectacle of a debate, why risk it going round the outside in a swirly set of corners when Ocon could easily slipstream his way past on the next straight. That would have been sooooo much easier. Yeah he is allowed to pass bla bla but this is just a stupid choice to attempt a pass.

You avoid stuff like this by not setting yourself in a postion for this to happen in the first place.

Max is stupid for not paying attention and Ocon looks like a turd for running the leader off. It's a stupid fucking world.

6 of one, half a dozen of another. But you try telling either of them to try thinking ahead...

@

Omega: how is it just an interpretation when I'm literally describing the actions of those drivers? Actions are what matter. If you move inside to block someone, you have definitely made your mind that you're not letting them past, and acted upon that decision for everyone to see. And if you've ever driven a race before, decisions are made in seconds indeed. 2 seconds is an awful lot of time in a race car. Half a lap is an eternity. My point is that this did not happen out of the blue, and both drivers knew exactly what they were doing, yet kept at it.

The thing I like most about it is that neither driver has backed down from their position, so we could well be seeing the beginnings of a great rivalry.

You know, for the whole one more race they'll be on the same racetrack

Still, if Max is lapping Ocon again at Abu-Dhabi, it'll be interesting to see how they both react.

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at least we'll have a wreck, since that track is the one you cannot pass at any spot

let's hope it happens in the halfway point so SC can go in and spice the boredom

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