Formula 1 2018 VTB Russian Grand Prix

SBan83 · PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:27 am

[streamable][/streamable]

codename_47 wrote:

SB83 wrote:

We're just mad because not even one goddamn team could challenge the bloody Mercs and of course, Merc are not going to provide us the entertainment we crave. They're going to do everything to win more of those delicious world championships in the most boring way possible.

I dunno man, if Mercedes were like that, they'd have never let Nico and Lewis race from 2014-2016 when they had the title to themselves and just do what Citroen did in their time in the WTCC and script the race and who was to win at every race until they won the title.

And They're racing a team that also aren't shy about building a whole team around 1 driver, so they'd be stupid to let Bottas and Hamilton take points off each other until the title is done

As soon as Lewis wins the title I expect he'll be moving over for Bottas at a race in Brazil or Abu Dhabi or somewhere to make up for it. He certainly wasn't happy about it, bottas wasn't happy about it, the team wasn't happy about it, but sometimes in life you have to make the big decisions.

Annoyingly, we're now talking about that instead of his brilliant move on Vettel after the pit stops.
I'd much rather focus on overtaking but that's never the agenda on F1, for some reason... :roll:

They had to let Rosberg and Hamilton race, it seemed like. There was probably no roll-over stipulation in his contract like there obviously is for Bottas. But the whole rest of your post basically agrees with my original point, which is, Mercedes are going to try and win in the most non-dramatic aka boring way possible. We should be more upset at Ferrari and the rest for not being able to give them a fight that can entertain us.

micha · PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:33 am

kals wrote:

And we’re also ignoring Max slicing his way through the field and leading comfortably for a very long time with a tyre than was supposed to fall off a cliff after 6 laps.

I'm obviously super biased but I kinda fear for what Verstappen can do with yesterdays mindset and a dominant car. :ohmy:

Its gonna be the Schumacher-Ferrari dominance era all over again but worse.

Juihi · PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:35 am

Worse like the Mercedes domination era? :8:

micha · PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:11 am

Juihi wrote:

Worse like the Mercedes domination era? :8:

It could be just me but I have less issues with the Mercedes era or even the RBR era than I had with the Ferrari era.

Maybe it because I was more involved with the sport back then but During the Hamilton-Rosberg period it was not really a clear #1 & #2 situation. And they didnt have any Austria antics either.

Fox · PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:50 am

HALO did its job there.... NOT.

Debri flew against Gasly´s helmet and into the cockpit.

No one noticed it? That could have been really bad

Sergio · PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:16 am

micha wrote:

Its gonna be the Schumacher-Ferrari dominance era all over again but worse.

A poster on motorsport had this to say.

Quote:

Given Mercedes are no stranger to playing mind games and Toto's Bernie-style hand grenade to destabilise the opposition and sell false narratives, I believe Mercedes have always held a certain margin of superior technical edge over Ferrari all along. The pace has always been in that car, starting from the first race of the season in Australia. However, following pre-season testing in which Ferrari looked to have made a real step that could propel them into engaging in a fight of equals throughout the season with the mighty Mercedes, quali came for the Melbourne GP and Mercedes came out all guns blazing gapping the closest Ferrari by some 8-odd tenths. Suddenly, F1 as a business who lost big in the previous 4 years of total domination from Mercedes, and with everyone in the paddock pressing the SOS button, Mercedes, led by Toto Wollff who is a master at playing the long term game, did their own number crunching and decided to throttle back somewhat. Then what happened? Instead of Mercedes looking like having the "power mode", it is now oil burning Ferrari who took pole in Bahrain and victories in both Australia and Bahrain, who look to have been hiding their pace - the ones playing games. So it's Ferrari who have power modes and all. Driving the point home, the advantage we see Mercedes having over Ferrari is just Mercedes throwing away the calculator and showing their true colours

Can it be mercedes was tricking everybody all along?
Gonna be some boring years indeed Micha if this domination continues.

James B · PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:51 am

SB83 wrote:

They had to let Rosberg and Hamilton race, it seemed like. There was probably no roll-over stipulation in his contract like there obviously is for Bottas.

I doubt Bottas has anything in his contract related to this other than a basic "you must follow instructions from the team" clause. It's not like he hasn't been allowed to finish ahead of Lewis in the past. He almost certainly has equal contractual status, just as Rosberg did. It's just that he's out of contention this season

micha · PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:00 pm

Sergio wrote:

micha wrote:

Its gonna be the Schumacher-Ferrari dominance era all over again but worse.

A poster on motorsport had this to say.

Quote:

Given Mercedes are no stranger to playing mind games and Toto's Bernie-style hand grenade to destabilise the opposition and sell false narratives, I believe Mercedes have always held a certain margin of superior technical edge over Ferrari all along. The pace has always been in that car, starting from the first race of the season in Australia. However, following pre-season testing in which Ferrari looked to have made a real step that could propel them into engaging in a fight of equals throughout the season with the mighty Mercedes, quali came for the Melbourne GP and Mercedes came out all guns blazing gapping the closest Ferrari by some 8-odd tenths. Suddenly, F1 as a business who lost big in the previous 4 years of total domination from Mercedes, and with everyone in the paddock pressing the SOS button, Mercedes, led by Toto Wollff who is a master at playing the long term game, did their own number crunching and decided to throttle back somewhat. Then what happened? Instead of Mercedes looking like having the "power mode", it is now oil burning Ferrari who took pole in Bahrain and victories in both Australia and Bahrain, who look to have been hiding their pace - the ones playing games. So it's Ferrari who have power modes and all. Driving the point home, the advantage we see Mercedes having over Ferrari is just Mercedes throwing away the calculator and showing their true colours

Can it be mercedes was tricking everybody all along?
Gonna be some boring years indeed Micha if this domination continues.

Looking at the recent races I doubt Mercedes is really that much better. I think Hamilton is really on top of his game right now. If its mainly the car then Bottas needs to be sacked yesterday because he has been unimpressive most of the time.

Gaara · PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:05 pm

Fox wrote:

HALO did its job there.... NOT.

Debri flew against Gasly´s helmet and into the cockpit.

No one noticed it? That could have been really bad

Saw him mention it and praised the visor.

That's quite a big bit.

mclaren2008 · PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:09 pm

De Cesaris fan · PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:25 pm

Exactly why Indycar's screen is a far better solution. Gasly said they will have to look and see how it made it past the halo. Couldn't possibly be those two massive gaps either side of the halo, could it? :slaphead:

I get it, no solution is perfect. Halo is probably very good against a wheel. But smaller pieces of debris, which are far more likely to come off another car, have got so many easy ways to get into the cockpit. I'm still waiting for a large piece of debris to strike the halo and shatter all over the driver, because it will happen.

F1 has some of the best technical brains in the world. Either my brain is too small and feeble to comprehend how fantastic the halo is as stopping debris, or it's a travesty that this is the best solution they could come up with.

Coldtyre · PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:56 pm

James B wrote:

SB83 wrote:

They had to let Rosberg and Hamilton race, it seemed like. There was probably no roll-over stipulation in his contract like there obviously is for Bottas.

I doubt Bottas has anything in his contract related to this other than a basic "you must follow instructions from the team" clause. It's not like he hasn't been allowed to finish ahead of Lewis in the past. He almost certainly has equal contractual status, just as Rosberg did. It's just that he's out of contention this season

Hamilton's fault.

(I think my coat is right over there)

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:02 pm

So Mercedes was sandbagging through the 1st half of the season and now is showing that not has changed? How farcical

Gaara · PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:06 pm

De Cesaris fan wrote:

Exactly why Indycar's screen is a far better solution. Gasly said they will have to look and see how it made it past the halo. Couldn't possibly be those two massive gaps either side of the halo, could it? :slaphead:

I get it, no solution is perfect. Halo is probably very good against a wheel. But smaller pieces of debris, which are far more likely to come off another car, have got so many easy ways to get into the cockpit. I'm still waiting for a large piece of debris to strike the halo and shatter all over the driver, because it will happen.

F1 has some of the best technical brains in the world. Either my brain is too small and feeble to comprehend how fantastic the halo is as stopping debris, or it's a travesty that this is the best solution they could come up with.

Someone has to be making a lot of money out of the halo and are forcing the FIA to choose it over the screen. Why else would they have ditched the idea after one lap while Indycar has actually used it on an oval for many laps without a driver getting disoriented.

*dons tinfoil hat*

Ian-S · PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:53 pm

Subject: Formula 1 2018 VTB Russian Grand Prix

Gaara wrote:

De Cesaris fan wrote:

Exactly why Indycar's screen is a far better solution. Gasly said they will have to look and see how it made it past the halo. Couldn't possibly be those two massive gaps either side of the halo, could it? :slaphead:

I get it, no solution is perfect. Halo is probably very good against a wheel. But smaller pieces of debris, which are far more likely to come off another car, have got so many easy ways to get into the cockpit. I'm still waiting for a large piece of debris to strike the halo and shatter all over the driver, because it will happen.

F1 has some of the best technical brains in the world. Either my brain is too small and feeble to comprehend how fantastic the halo is as stopping debris, or it's a travesty that this is the best solution they could come up with.

Someone has to be making a lot of money out of the halo and are forcing the FIA to choose it over the screen. Why else would they have ditched the idea after one lap while Indycar has actually used it on an oval for many laps without a driver getting disoriented.

*dons tinfoil hat*

Because Indycar did their homework and talked to the right people who told them to avoid disorientation caused by the warped view, the screen must be of the same continuous arc throughout the curve. Right people as in anybody who has sat in a single seater plane or glider, you don't even need to be a NASA engineer to know warped view = motion sickness.

F1 knew best and did it their way.

And of course yes, the money will be good for whoever is making the things.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:57 am

Sergio wrote:

micha wrote:

Its gonna be the Schumacher-Ferrari dominance era all over again but worse.

A poster on motorsport had this to say.

Quote:

Given Mercedes are no stranger to playing mind games and Toto's Bernie-style hand grenade to destabilise the opposition and sell false narratives, I believe Mercedes have always held a certain margin of superior technical edge over Ferrari all along. The pace has always been in that car, starting from the first race of the season in Australia. However, following pre-season testing in which Ferrari looked to have made a real step that could propel them into engaging in a fight of equals throughout the season with the mighty Mercedes, quali came for the Melbourne GP and Mercedes came out all guns blazing gapping the closest Ferrari by some 8-odd tenths. Suddenly, F1 as a business who lost big in the previous 4 years of total domination from Mercedes, and with everyone in the paddock pressing the SOS button, Mercedes, led by Toto Wollff who is a master at playing the long term game, did their own number crunching and decided to throttle back somewhat. Then what happened? Instead of Mercedes looking like having the "power mode", it is now oil burning Ferrari who took pole in Bahrain and victories in both Australia and Bahrain, who look to have been hiding their pace - the ones playing games. So it's Ferrari who have power modes and all. Driving the point home, the advantage we see Mercedes having over Ferrari is just Mercedes throwing away the calculator and showing their true colours

Can it be mercedes was tricking everybody all along?
Gonna be some boring years indeed Micha if this domination continues.

Fucking hell, that's a hell of a risky game to play, especially as they don't control ferrari's development, lucked into a couple of wins due to rain, have had a couple of reliability issues of their own, thrown away a couple of races due to fucking up tactics in a VSC and would be pretty much even-stevens with Ferrari if Vettel didn't keep throwing away points like Hockenheim and Monza.

Plus if they ran behind Ferrari all year, then turned up to Japan or wherever with party mode and were 2 seconds a lap faster, their cunning plan would be foiled immediately

People really go to great lengths to either disprove Lewis is an all time great or that Ferrari had a damn good car and have pissed this championship away

Funny thing is, after Austria people knew Ferrari had the better car and Mercedes were the ones not only slower but making tactical blunders and having worse reliability.
Ferrari absolutely dominated in Bahrain, Silverstone and Canada, among others.

After the season's end I wouldn't be surprised if the consensus was that Ferrari had the better car, Mercedes the better team, and possibly much better in-season development.
I also would not blame Ferrari one second if they admitted they have been more affected by the death of Marchionne than they've been admitting. The guy was the bedrock of the team and a combination of their grief and the lack of his management presence has surely contributed to their woes in the 2nd half of this year.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:11 am

Since we're doing conspiracy theories, here's another one:

Ferrari have been using their "trick" (whatever it is that causes the start up smoke and whatever causes them to try and block their on-board camera in the garage) which gave them an engine advantage and the FIA have quietly had a word and told them to not use it before they go further with punishments and suddenly Ferrari's pace has dropped

I'd believe that more than Mercedes deciding to not want to win races for the "good of the championship" or whatever (like any team cares about anything but themselves :whistling:

)

Philthy82 · PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:04 am

Schumifan wrote:

Philthy82 wrote:

Just going to throw in that Coldtyre is 100% right and it's depressing how many people here justify team orders in F1 "because traditions" as if F1 couldn't survive and be far better without them, and as if there aren't plenty other forms of Motorsport that don't have team orders (and somehow don't even have to make a rule against them).

Genuine question - which other series work in the same way as F1 (ie. team cars are funded entirely by the same people with exactly the same sponsors), and don't have team orders?

Late reply, but Formula E, MotoGP, BTCC and V8 Supercars to name a few. Yes there have been extremely rare examples of team orders in these series, but far more common is the sight of teammates fighting (and hitting) eachother for positions and victories, championship points be damned. My take is many series realise there are worse things than losing the championship, such as winning it in a way that turns fans off and damages the image of the sport. Obviously F1 doesn't look at it that way, but I don't think the younger market they're chasing will have as much patience for that as previous generations have.

Coldtyre · PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:51 am

I feel that in the case of Indycar for example, it seems that the crown is not as prestigious as actual victories. The fact that the field is open, the tracks are varied, large amounts of points are awarded, and with some huge stand-alone events like 500-milers and classical venues, make it so that victory at given week-ends has a larger importance than in F1. It's something that I feel I can identify with more as an individual, than I do with large manufacturer teams caring about their sweet dollar revenue for a championship position.

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:56 pm

codename_47 wrote:

I'd believe that more than Mercedes deciding to not want to win races for the "good of the championship" or whatever (like any team cares about anything but themselves :whistling:

)

more plausible Liberty giving Mercedes a bit more of cash to play the game on very hard difficulty

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Formula 1 2018 VTB Russian Grand Prix

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