TBK-Light.com :: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread

we need engines going kaputt because drivers push over the edge, leave power management to those electric cars

I'd take any formula that brings us as many manufacturers and as much great racing as formula e last night

Main reason we don't see huge blow ups any more is because engines usually can detect critical failures before they happen and put the engine in safe or limp mode before the car ejaculates oil out the exhaust.

I do agree the 5 engine limit is stupid, but not for the reason you're thinking @

webbsy. Nothing is stopping manufacturers building 300 engines a year, spending $400m on them (I'm just spitting numbers). They only have to nominate 5 that they will use. It would be wiser to limit them to 7-8 a year, but ensure as a team/manufacturer they only build and test another 10 more.

The reason the engines are so complex is because that's what manufacturers want. Turbo's, downsizing, energy recovery systems, that's the direction manufacturers are taking. It's a sad reality - I've mentioned this before, internal combustion engines have been done to death, they've been around for 140 odd years. Nothing much they can do that hasn't already been done. If F1 returned to having simple NA ICE engines, enticing new manufacturers to the sport would be impossible. What we might see is non-auto manufacturers (Cosworth, Judd etc.) re-entering the sport but that's about it.

F1 needs the technology aspect to keep manufacturers in the game, problem is the technology is pushing supporters out of the sport.

F1 needs to find a solution to maintain some sort of technical aspect to the power units while maintaining the grandeur of the sport (ie. really loud cars that go very fast).

It's time to leave the hybrid racing to WEC and just focus on ICE.

LucasWheldon wrote:

we need engines going kaputt because drivers push over the edge, leave power management to those electric cars

This should be their reference for the new engine model.

Obviously, also have vote for "Kablammo of the day".

EDIT: Speedworx, that's a lame one

F1 needs the technology aspect to keep manufacturers in the game, problem is the technology is pushing supporters out of the sport.

What is it with the old Hockenheim that everybody seems to want back? It was never a track that produced thrilling racing except for 1996 and 2000 (wet). It tended to be Noah's Ark race since drivers made next to no difference and it was all engines. If it were around today, it would probably be the worst race of the year.

The new one is a good track in its own right, offers ample places to pass and produces good racing.

ptclaus98 wrote:

That needs to be the strategy moving forward. The manufacturers will leave eventually, and they aren't as crucial to F1 as they are to WEC or even IndyCar. It's time to leave the hybrid racing to WEC and just focus on ICE. It's not the way forward in the auto industry, but performance cars and even fun cars aren't the way forward in the auto industry either, so F1 should cut ties with that ideology.

F1 cuts ties with that ideology and loses Mercedes and Ferrari. Does it survive?

Will 800 million odd people watch a sport where its Ferrari vs. Mercedes or Red Bull Cosworth vs. Haas Illmor? Sauber Judd vs. Bet365 Tag-Heuer?

Author:	codename_47 [ Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
I'd take any formula that brings us as many manufacturers and as much great racing as formula e last night Without copyong formula e of course

Author:	Fabs [ Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
There's no room for Formula rEtard here, this is elite F1.

Author:	codename_47 [ Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
No room for formula racEing you mean, this is an elite procession with downF1orce

Author:	LucasWheldon [ Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
we need engines going kaputt because drivers push over the edge, leave power management to those electric cars

Author:	Speedworx [ Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
More engine failures like this please........and tracks like this

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Author:	JJ [ Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
LucasWheldon wrote: we need engines going kaputt because drivers push over the edge, leave power management to those electric cars This should be their reference for the new engine model. Obviously, also have vote for "Kablammo of the day". EDIT: Speedworx, that's a lame one

Author:	Soul Reaver [ Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
codename_47 wrote: I'd take any formula that brings us as many manufacturers and as much great racing as formula e last night So far Formula E only run 1 default car. Let's see about the racing next year......

Author:	webbsy [ Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
Having the engines built to last 5 races as well as all practices is one of the biggest limiting factors with these engines. Of course they are not being pushed to their maximum. There should at least be at a minimum a Friday only engine. All of these cost saving reasons are bloody laughable considering the FIA (and Renault) forced down F1's throat the most expensive and hideously complex engines in the sports history. The FIA created this mess and at a minimum the least they can do to fix some of the damage is to say the teams that finish outside of the top 5 in the constructors get a subsidized Friday only engine from the FIA. TIts not fixing the root cause but it at least goes someway towards it.

Author:	ptclaus98 [ Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
Scotty wrote: Main reason we don't see huge blow ups any more is because engines usually can detect critical failures before they happen and put the engine in safe or limp mode before the car ejaculates oil out the exhaust. I do agree the 5 engine limit is stupid, but not for the reason you're thinking @ webbsy. Nothing is stopping manufacturers building 300 engines a year, spending $400m on them (I'm just spitting numbers). They only have to nominate 5 that they will use. It would be wiser to limit them to 7-8 a year, but ensure as a team/manufacturer they only build and test another 10 more. The reason the engines are so complex is because that's what manufacturers want. Turbo's, downsizing, energy recovery systems, that's the direction manufacturers are taking. It's a sad reality - I've mentioned this before, internal combustion engines have been done to death, they've been around for 140 odd years. Nothing much they can do that hasn't already been done. If F1 returned to having simple NA ICE engines, enticing new manufacturers to the sport would be impossible. What we might see is non-auto manufacturers (Cosworth, Judd etc.) re-entering the sport but that's about it. F1 needs the technology aspect to keep manufacturers in the game, problem is the technology is pushing supporters out of the sport. F1 needs to find a solution to maintain some sort of technical aspect to the power units while maintaining the grandeur of the sport (ie. really loud cars that go very fast). That needs to be the strategy moving forward. The manufacturers will leave eventually, and they aren't as crucial to F1 as they are to WEC or even IndyCar. It's time to leave the hybrid racing to WEC and just focus on ICE. It's not the way forward in the auto industry, but performance cars and even fun cars aren't the way forward in the auto industry either, so F1 should cut ties with that ideology.

Author:	micha [ Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
ptclaus98 wrote: It's time to leave the hybrid racing to WEC and just focus on ICE. I don't really see the need for In Car Entertainment in Formula 1 TBH

Author:	Justin Time [ Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
JJ wrote: LucasWheldon wrote: we need engines going kaputt because drivers push over the edge, leave power management to those electric cars This should be their reference for the new engine model. Obviously, also have vote for "Kablammo of the day". EDIT: Speedworx, that's a lame one Even 15 years ago: Honda, the power of dreams I loved that era of Jordans and BARs spontaneously combusting on track in a huge ball of fire.

Author:	mclaren2008 [ Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
What is it with the old Hockenheim that everybody seems to want back? It was never a track that produced thrilling racing except for 1996 and 2000 (wet). It tended to be Noah's Ark race since drivers made next to no difference and it was all engines. If it were around today, it would probably be the worst race of the year. The new one is a good track in its own right, offers ample places to pass and produces good racing.

Author:	Gaara [ Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
Character. The blast through the forest and the struggle through the stadium section. The new track just looks generic.

Author:	micha [ Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
I do admit that the Old Hockenheim might be that highschool sweetheart that in retrospect might not be as hot as you remembered, the head she gave actually was kinda bad because she used her teeth and the sex was awkward as both of you lacked experience but still, if you got the chance, you'd do her at the reunion even if she did gain 50 pounds.

Author:	westracing01 [ Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
BMW just dropped a normally aspirated 12 cylinder in their 7 series. Open the rules UP!!! Let the manufacturers decide what they want to run. Ferrari as a manufacturer is a joke since the FIA could dictate chainsaw engines and they'd participate anyway. Mercedes, Renault, Honda. That's what we've got for manufacturers. Renault and Honda might want small displacement turbo's but the engine in that Benz safety car isn't a 1.4L turbo. Give the teams X amount of fuel for the race (105kg for arguments sake.) No fuel flow limit, no specified engine reg. Fuck it. You want the manufacturers? Give them a challenge. If they can make a 1200HP V12 go the distance, cool. 1.5L twin turbo 4 banger with 1350HP? No problem. Take off the aero. All that HP won't do shit if they can't get it to the ground. Ditch this have to run two compounds of tire crap. If they don't want to pit and put on the hards good. Team thinks their 1000+HP rocket on softs can eek out enough gap to make a stop and get back to the front? Go for it. All the while Cosworth, Judd and Ilmor have their tried and true 950-1050HP V8's and V10's in the backs of the small teams who now have a chance to steal some points with clever strategy.

Author:	RtN [ Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
I don't think it would be possible to put the aero genie back in the bottle short of mandating spec wings and bodywork, which would not be F1. So don't try. Instead, tell the engine builders to make their engines as powerful as possible. BMW could get 1500bhp out of their quali specials 30 (three-zero) years ago. Why couldn't any manufacturer do the same today for a long-life engine using hybrid technology? If the power goes up to a point where the aero can't handle it then the cars become difficult to drive again by default. No longer will the FIA have to try and peel downforce off the cars only for the likes of Newey and Byrne to claim it all back plus interest within 3 years.

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Author:	LucasWheldon [ Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
Scotty wrote: F1 needs the technology aspect to keep manufacturers in the game, problem is the technology is pushing supporters out of the sport. do we really need manufacturers? they usually pull the plug whenever they feel sales are going down

Author:	micha [ Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
Opening up the rule book for engines won't bring what you hope for. Back in the day everyone opted for the V10 as it turned out to be the best power to weight ratio. If I recall correctly even Ferrari eventually went for the V10 and not because it was mandatory at the time. If we're extremely lucky we might end up with 2 working concepts if they open the rule book but most likely outcome is that they all end up with basically the same concept in the end.

Author:	Metzo [ Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
mclaren2008 wrote: What is it with the old Hockenheim that everybody seems to want back? It was never a track that produced thrilling racing except for 1996 and 2000 (wet). It tended to be Noah's Ark race since drivers made next to no difference and it was all engines. If it were around today, it would probably be the worst race of the year. The new one is a good track in its own right, offers ample places to pass and produces good racing. if you grew up with the original hockenheimring you would miss it, it may not be the greatest track of all time, but it was special. it never produced thrilling racing? guess you only watch f1, other racing series had plenty of thrilling races there.

Author:	ptclaus98 [ Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
Scotty wrote: ptclaus98 wrote: That needs to be the strategy moving forward. The manufacturers will leave eventually, and they aren't as crucial to F1 as they are to WEC or even IndyCar. It's time to leave the hybrid racing to WEC and just focus on ICE. It's not the way forward in the auto industry, but performance cars and even fun cars aren't the way forward in the auto industry either, so F1 should cut ties with that ideology. F1 cuts ties with that ideology and loses Mercedes and Ferrari. Does it survive? Will 800 million odd people watch a sport where its Ferrari vs. Mercedes or Red Bull Cosworth vs. Haas Illmor? Sauber Judd vs. Bet365 Tag-Heuer? Ferrari isn't going anywhere. Someone will replace the others, especially if the formula isn't so restricted. People watched when it was Ferrari vs a field of Ford Cosworths.