Great picture of Vergne there!
Some Monday morning reading
http://www.f1zone.net/news/hamiltons-mo ... sis/14430/
| TBK-Light.com https://tbk-light.com/phpBB3/ |
|
| 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* https://tbk-light.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=7600 |
Page 41 of 43 |
| Author: | phil1993 [ Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
Great picture of Vergne there! Some Monday morning reading http://www.f1zone.net/news/hamiltons-mo ... sis/14430/ |
|
| Author: | kals [ Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
Speedworx wrote: Really enjoyable race This. |
|
| Author: | bigears [ Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
It was very hard to watch the race on a stream with no information (such as subtitles) coming to me. So I had to rely what I was watching. It wasn't exciting at the first half but then the second half picked up and it got better at the end. Kudos to Grosjean and Perez for siting back to conserve their tyres before going for it at the end. It would be epic if Hamilton lost out at the end and Grosjean would claim the seventh differen winner of the season. |
|
| Author: | kals [ Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
I don't see the problem with DRS at Canada. It was clear yesterday that drivers held back from trying risky overtakes and then used the DRS zone to make a safe overtake. Why is that a problem for people to accept? An overtake is an overtake. |
|
| Author: | StefMeister [ Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
kals wrote: I don't see the problem with DRS at Canada. It was clear yesterday that drivers held back from trying risky overtakes and then used the DRS zone to make a safe overtake. Why is that a problem for people to accept? An overtake is an overtake. Speaking for myself its wecause I would prefer to actually see some racing with cars battling over positions & then getting to see some exciting overtaking.The most exciting overtake we saw was Schumacher on Kobayashi at the hairpin, However Kobayashi was then in the DRS detection point so immediately got to push the button & get past easily. Also think of the 1st time Lewis passed Alonso after the 1st stops, Without DRS we'd have got to see a thrilling battle for the lead between 2 of the best drivers in F1 yet because of DRS Lewis was straght past with Alonso unable to do anything to defend. Like Villeneuve said on sky yesterday, Watching a good race going on & watching an overtaking move happen should be an exciting thing to watch yet all DRS does is produce easy & boring to watch passes & that takes away a lot of that tention & excitement & im not enjoying the racing as much as a result. My biggest gripe with DRS is not the DRS device itself but more the way its been implemented with 1 second gaps, Only the following car allowed to use it, detection points & DRS zones. If they want to keep detection points & zones then stop putting the DRS zone on the primary overtaking place. Maybe look at it opening a smaller gap to give a smaller speed gain, working to get cars alongside & not clean past. However I still think they need to totally change how its used, Maybe doing wha the WSBR does & give every driver 900 seconds of DRS use anywhere round the track to attack & defend. This not only introduces some strategy regarding when/where you use your DRS but because it can be used by the defending driver as well as the attacking driver & would produce some good battles into the braking zones & some good side-by-side racing down the straghts. |
|
| Author: | Regiotap [ Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
kals wrote: I don't see the problem with DRS at Canada. It was clear yesterday that drivers held back from trying risky overtakes and then used the DRS zone to make a safe overtake. Why is that a problem for people to accept? An overtake is an overtake. Yeah. Just waiting for the straight end, to easily pass someone with 20 km/h difference. Yeah, wow. That's racing we want to see. |
|
| Author: | phil1993 [ Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
I would prefer what FR3.5 do, so that it allows the defending driver to actually defend |
|
| Author: | kals [ Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
Regiotap wrote: kals wrote: I don't see the problem with DRS at Canada. It was clear yesterday that drivers held back from trying risky overtakes and then used the DRS zone to make a safe overtake. Why is that a problem for people to accept? An overtake is an overtake. Yeah. Just waiting for the straight end, to easily pass someone with 20 km/h difference. Yeah, wow. That's racing we want to see. Again, this view is incredibly blinkered. You still have to get into a position where you CAN overtake using DRS. Using DRS doesn't guarantee you an overtake and certainly didn't yesterday. 30 years ago drivers were able to wait for a long straight, turn up the turbo boost and easily overtake the car in front. 20 years ago drivers were able to use more capable electronic aids and higher horsepower to easily out accelerate / overtake cars in a straight line. 10 years ago and up until recently we lamented the lack of actual racing going on in the sport because (apart from the odd occasion) it was incredibly difficult to make any form of overtake outside of one in the pit lane. What drivers were doing yesterday was smart as they knew there was a guaranteed opportunity to overtake. Not a guaranteed overtake, a guaranteed opportunity. Those are very different things. So rather than take undue risks they were patient, got themselves into a position to take advantage of DRS then went for it. What would you rather.... A) Driver takes big risk for an overtake, it's exciting to watch but 9 times out of 10 the defending driver will block and attacking driver will probably go off, damage their car while attacking or not overtake? B) Drivers behave sensibly, don't need to take risk which could ruin their own or another driver's race and be able to overtake? I love excitement but an overtake doesn't have to be risky for it to be exciting. |
|
| Author: | gd49 [ Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
I think Canada, like a few other tracks on the calender, does not need DRS. Just from the tye situation alone, this years race would have been interesting, and it already has the layout needed for modern F1 cars to overtake. However, there's plenty of other tracks where I'm very grateful that DRS is available, because without it the only overtaking would happen in the pits. Overall, I'd rather be watching F1 with DRS than without it. If DRS does stay, I think it'll be a few years before the FIA masters how it should be used. |
|
| Author: | bigears [ Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
phil1993 wrote: I would prefer what FR3.5 do, so that it allows the defending driver to actually defend Correct me if I am wrong, the defending car get its DRA activated as well? In order to defend from an attacking car with DRS on? |
|
| Author: | phil1993 [ Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
bigears wrote: phil1993 wrote: I would prefer what FR3.5 do, so that it allows the defending driver to actually defend Correct me if I am wrong, the defending car get its DRA activated as well? In order to defend from an attacking car with DRS on? I believe so. The rules state: Quote: During each race the driver will have available a time allocation during which the DRS can be activated. The allocated time of DRS use will be communicated no less than 2 hours before the start of the race. I believe in Aragon it was 900 seconds (15 minutes) but they were planning to alter it throughout the season. |
|
| Author: | Coldtyre [ Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
Regiotap wrote: kals wrote: I don't see the problem with DRS at Canada. It was clear yesterday that drivers held back from trying risky overtakes and then used the DRS zone to make a safe overtake. Why is that a problem for people to accept? An overtake is an overtake. Yeah. Just waiting for the straight end, to easily pass someone with 20 km/h difference. Yeah, wow. That's racing we want to see. Most of the time, DRS helps the race. In hindsight, yesterday we didn't need it because we had the tyre situation to cause battles. If a driver is way faster than another one, he will go through and go in the distance and no one will stop him from doing so, and the race will be boring except for the couple corners they will be close (like yesterday). With or without DRS. But remember that between two cars of exactly the same capabilities and two good drivers, even in Canada you would get exactly jackshit of passing. Reminder? The 2001 GP with the battle between Michael and Ralf behind him. It was laps and laps of Ralf not even getting close to him enough to do anything. That little boost from the DRS would have opened opportunities, maybe allowing them to pass and re-pass each other because they had exactly the same speed. Don't bash the DRS just because in this particular race with these particular conditions, it ruined some good battles. It has more benefits than cons and everyone knows it but keeps whining for some reason. |
|
| Author: | OS [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
The way I saw the race, DRS wasn't the main thing - it helped a few passes along and maybe made them easier to get done than with no DRS but it wasn't creating passes where there wouldn't have been one, people still had to get in a position to pass. When people were fairly equal on tyres we weren't seeing them breezing by one another, they would only get by with the help of DRS after getting a good exit off the hairpin and a slipstream onto the straight. If you didn't get good traction out of the hairpin and get in a position to pass, the DRS didn't really help that much. Towards the end when the tyres were causing big differences, it was still all about traction more than anything else ... People talk about 1 second being the DRS window, and technically it is for the activation but if you're the thick end of a second down on someone, DRS doesn't get you in a position to pass - to use DRS to pass you really need to be at about .5 maybe .6 back and with a good exit off whatever corner precedes the zone ... |
|
| Author: | Misterfreeman87 [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
I think people here are not arguing against DRS in general, just the way it is used in Canada. This long straight just doesnt need DRS (it actualy just makes passing there less demanding), so why not put the DRS Zone alongside the start/finish straight instead to actually create a new overtaking place. |
|
| Author: | kals [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
Without DRS in that spot on Sunday one of two things would have happened: - Car is unable to get an effective slipstream, as we've seen constantly in Montreal over the years - Car gets a slipstream but thanks to the rev limit there isn't enough of a speed differential to make the pass We have seen passes without DRS, Massa proved that early in the race, but only very few. |
|
| Author: | aerogi [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
an overtake with DRS is an overtake. an overtake without DRS is an overtake. A goal scored within one metre is a goal. A goal scored from 30 metres in the top corner is a goal. in the end it is the same result, but still it's different somehow. But for the record, I am not against DRS, it has helped to have great races in the past. But at Canada something was not right. It was great to see Alonso and Vettel tried a different strategy to try and win the race. With or without DRS Hamilton would have won anyway, but I am sure it would not have been THAT easy to pass them. There was the advantage of fresh tyres, and the advantage of DRS. If it would have been only the advantage of tyres, I'm sure it would have taken a few more laps. |
|
| Author: | Zorba [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
A DRS overtake is like an old Shummy refuel pitstop overtake style, it's not a real "driver against driver" race, it's a little fake, but I am not against too. |
|
| Author: | Omega [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
aerogi wrote: an overtake with DRS is an overtake. an overtake without DRS is an overtake. A goal scored within one metre is a goal. A goal scored from 30 metres in the top corner is a goal. in the end it is the same result, but still it's different somehow. The passing with DRS in Canada is like winning the champions league by penalties. You win, but the public are not that sure if it is that well deserved. At least I do. |
|
| Author: | Fish88 [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
Omega wrote: aerogi wrote: an overtake with DRS is an overtake. an overtake without DRS is an overtake. A goal scored within one metre is a goal. A goal scored from 30 metres in the top corner is a goal. in the end it is the same result, but still it's different somehow. The passing with DRS in Canada is like winning the champions league by penalties. You win, but the public are not that sure if it is that well deserved. At least I do. More like scoring without a goal keeper. No defence at all. |
|
| Author: | Artur Craft [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2012 Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada *Spoilers* |
Zorba wrote: A DRS overtake is like an old Shummy refuel pitstop overtake style, it's not a real "driver against driver" race, it's a little fake, but I am not against too. this. |
|
| Page 41 of 43 | All times are UTC+01:00 |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited https://www.phpbb.com/ |
|