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Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)
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Author:  phil1993 [ Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

Martin Brundle's view on the collision

Quote:
Did he squeeze Maldonado off the track? No, he left the mandatory car's width in the braking zone and then if your opponent tries to go around the outside of a tight corner he's likely to run out of space, that's perfectly normal. Should Lewis have left more space for Maldonado? Absolutely yes, especially for him given their history together, but the layout of the track there means he couldn't run very far off line as a tight left hander followed immediately. But the bottom line is that Maldonado speared at a sharp angle into the side of Hamilton's car having just recovered from fully off the race track. The throttle pedal works both ways, and this was a particularly stupid accident anyway because he was guaranteed to pass the McLaren any time soon. Apparently Williams had implored him on the radio not to take risks, and he is very lucky not to be carrying a heavy grid penalty to Silverstone.

Author:  Fabs [ Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

50/50 Both at fault during different parts of the incident.

Author:  Fergo [ Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

It's the driver overtaking who has the ultimate responsibility to make a clean overtake and while Hamilton did push Maldonado, he did nothing against the rules and Maldonado could have easily waited to rejoin the track and make an overtake into the hairpin. It's absurd to suggest a driver shouldn't defend because their tyres are worn.

Author:  aerogi [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

Fergie wrote:
It's the driver overtaking who has the ultimate responsibility to make a clean overtake and while Hamilton did push Maldonado, he did nothing against the rules and Maldonado could have easily waited to rejoin the track and make an overtake into the hairpin. It's absurd to suggest a driver shouldn't defend because their tyres are worn.


it is absurd to defend with worn tyres when there are a whole bunch of championship points at stake.

that's the difference between Lewis and for example Prost. The latter would have thought about the points, Lewis about racing until he ends up in the wall.

You can argue that it is not in the spirit of 'true' racing, but in the end, it are the points that matters, it is the championship that matters, it are the people working for the team that matters.

Whitmarsh is saying basically the same, whereas he feels it is Maldonado who is the one to blame, he also feels that Lewis perhaps should not have defended his position in this way.

Author:  Ospi [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

I find it amusing how people say LW shouldn't have played hard ball because it was Maldonado, as in he should have been more cautious around him. This is F1, why should a driver have to be more cautious and weary around another driver, this isn't Formula Ford, you would expect the drivers to be world class in their ability to fight tooth and nail without clumbsily crashing into eachother like Maldonado did to Hamilton.

Author:  Coldtyre [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

Next time I'll cut the bullcrap and let Martin Brundle speak. Just ignore any long post I made in this thread, all the points are in there :lol:

@
User avatar
Ospi
: Maldonado is not world-class in terms of opponent respect if you noticed. At least on two occasions (in 2011 and this year at Monaco), he crashed into people deliberately in free practice just because they didn't move out quickly enough for him. This is the guy we're talking about.

Imagine you're passing M. Schumacher for the championship for example. Wouldn't you take some extra care? :p

Author:  Ospi [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

Yeah that's what I mean though, the fact we have drivers in the championship who you can't even race hard against through fear of being taken out in amateur fashion. At this level you would hope you wouldn't have to deal with that.

Author:  Tobias [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

I watched it again and am more confident in my initial feeling that Hamilton was at fault. Especially because Hamilton switched back slightly allowing Maldonado (seemingly) space to rejoin.

Author:  Neil [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

It's called taking the racing line, which he was entitled to do as he was ahead.

Author:  Ospi [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

Hamilton could have been on the far outside of the corner and Maldonado would have still taken him out given the angle he was rejoining.

Author:  Tobias [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

true enough. Maybe it's just my sympathy because I would have done the same in rfactor :shame:

Author:  Neil [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

Tobias wrote:
true enough. Maybe it's just my sympathy because I would have done the same in rfactor :shame:


Remind me not to race you online :p

Author:  Jonny [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

Tobias wrote:
true enough. Maybe it's just my sympathy because I would have done the same in rfactor :shame:


I drove into the side of you once and sent you into a series of barrel rolls. :D

Author:  Zorba [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

A car coming from off the track hit the other. Who is wrong?

Author:  kals [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

Cash wrote:
Tobias wrote:
true enough. Maybe it's just my sympathy because I would have done the same in rfactor :shame:


I drove into the side of you once and sent you into a series of barrel rolls. :D


I think we've all done that to Antonov before. And who wouldn't want to? :p

Author:  Tobias [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

damn you guys, I feel like Hamilton in Interlagos 2008 with enemies all around me! But don't discount me, when it comes to the final corner ... ;)

Author:  kals [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

Tobias wrote:
But don't discount me, when it comes to the final corner ... ;)


If I remember rightly, it was me who won, overtaking you around the outside of the last corner on the last lap... ;)

Author:  Bleu [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

alex1369 wrote:
Maldonado because he was off the line, not 2 wheel but all 4, accident could have been avoided. I would have cutted the chicane. He would overtake him anyway... just a little patience.


Pretty much my opinion as well.

Author:  Dan Belcher [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

It's interesting to me how the international view of a move like this seems to be "it's okay for Hamilton to shove Maldonado off the racetrack since it's the overtaking car's responsibility to make the move cleanly." However, that type of move doesn't happen much in American racing -- we seem to have more of the mentality that if the guy is there, don't risk taking both of you out. Give him some extra room and let him stay on the racetrack even if you lose the spot. You're much less likely to have one or both of you wrecked that way. Anyone else notice this, or is it just me?

Author:  Ospi [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's at Fault Valencia Edition (Spoilers)

Dan Belcher wrote:
It's interesting to me how the international view of a move like this seems to be "it's okay for Hamilton to shove Maldonado off the racetrack since it's the overtaking car's responsibility to make the move cleanly." However, that type of move doesn't happen much in American racing -- we seem to have more of the mentality that if the guy is there, don't risk taking both of you out. Give him some extra room and let him stay on the racetrack even if you lose the spot. You're much less likely to have one or both of you wrecked that way. Anyone else notice this, or is it just me?

Unless it's nascar and you just take eachother out completely because it is some kind of payback for 3 races previous.

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