2013 Random F1 Discussion

phil1993 · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:16 am

Scotty wrote:

I'm not trolling, but I really like the idea of double points in the last race.

Someone cracked it before saying we'd lose moments like we had in 2008 with Glock. Theoretically this doubles the chances of this kind of thing happening! Instead of someone limping to a world title or just scraping through, they have to push all the way to the end, not just in the last race, but in the last 3. You can not ease of knowing you've got a big lead.

But this is the antitheses of sports such as Formula 1. You have a championship of X races, where all is equal. This change favours the teams that don't get it right at the start of the season. It'd be like the last gameweek of the football season counting for 6 points or the final day of a test match counting for double runs.

micha · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:25 am

phil1993 wrote:

Missed among this is that there will be a three day test next week
http://www.f1zone.net/news/six-teams-to ... eek/21416/

All 11 teams were invited, but only those six chose to come. Presumably, the others are too poor.

while they might be poor I think the fact that they're going to test 2014 tires on a 2013 car and have to fly their shit to Bahrain is just not worth the money.
2014 cars are going to be very different due to new rules.
If they had the test in Silverstone (weatherwise not so good of a choice probably) I bet at least all the England based teams would be there. The smaller one's probably would be able to find 1 or 2 drivers willing to cover those costs.

glorfindel · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:42 am

So I just saw that teams rejected a change to the weight limit, http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/25310485 and I need your guys help.

I don't understand why the drivers weight is a factor. Surely they can just weight them before and after the race and subtract their weight from that of the car? Can anyone help me understand why the drivers weight is a factor please?

phil1993 · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:45 am

Teams are struggling to meet the weight limit because of the new power units etc - ideally a driver would be in the region of 55kg. So the taller/heavier the driver, the more problematic it is.

Plus it negatively affects the weight distribution.

I'm sure Scotty can offer a better explanation!

ellis · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:18 am

I say we we pick numbers out of a hat to decide grid positions. If we're going to do the touring car thing then lets do it properly rather than pretend this isn't ridiculous.

phil1993 · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:28 am

Will it really make the race more exciting though? Which finales across the past decade would have been more exciting with double points?

2004, 05 would have been done and dusted before the last round. 06 the same, 07 the same, 08 would have been different but exciting in a different way (less?), 09 would have gone to the last round but not been a thriller, 10 would have been less exciting as there was a glimmer of hope that Alonso would get P4, whereas under the new system, there was no chance he'd get the title, 11, 13 would have been done and dusted. 2012 might have been more exciting, but that was already a great race.

It isn't the equivalent of having a World Cup final, it's the equivalent of having goals count for double during the last 10 minutes of the final. You also have driver/team combinations that suit one circuit and not another. This is saying that Abu Dhabi is worth twice as much as nailing 78 laps of Monaco. Which is total bullshit.

The Premier League proposed a 39th game play-off and got ridiculed, yet this is pretty much what F1 has done.

---

According to Sky Sports, this isn't yet set in stone so maybe it'll change: 'This is an idea, it is not set in stone - yet. Even though this is a pronouncement from the FIA, the sport's governing body, I think there is still some wriggle room if this proves to be very unpopular. The reason they have done it is to spice up the last race of the season, and they have certainly done that,. This is a major break form F1 tradition and judging from the reaction on social media, it has not gone down well.'

micha · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:30 am

Scotty wrote:

But what about sports which have a championship games/grand finals/superbowls/finals? My football (AFL) team can finish 8th in the season and still be crowned the champions. I like the idea of that. Why can't motorsport be like other team sports? Soccer has a world cup where 1 game counts above all else, being the world cup final. Why not have a F1 race where a race counts above all else? We have a very archaic championship which doesn't have any climax. It just ends at point X after X number of races. The tension of the point standings build it up so we sort of have a grand final so it's not exactly that simple, but the point only thing this will do is make a race MORE exciting.

I won't be swayed. I like the idea of it, and I'm not trying to make people agree with me. Yes this is a filthy gimmick, but DRS was a filthy gimmick and it's the greatest thing that's happened in Formula 1's modern history. This effects 1 race whereas DRS effects all of them, so in totality, it's nowhere near as bad! Anyway, I like the idea.

Just because other sports have something weird doesn't mean it's good.

IMHO, the best should be the one leading the tables at the end of the season where each round gives out the same amount of points.

Footballs · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:54 am

It'd be interesting to see peoples reactions if the final race wasn't Abu Dhabi and something like Interlagos or a street circuit.

I'm willing to give the idea a chance even though I didn't like the sound of it at first but anything that can bring the championship interest all the way to the final race is a good thing. For all we know the seasons dominated by one man and wrapped up with more than one race to go, then the idea wouldn't make a fat rats to the championship anyway.

matthew · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:44 am

phil1993 wrote:

Will it really make the race more exciting though? Which finales across the past decade would have been more exciting with double points?

2004, 05 would have been done and dusted before the last round. 06 the same, 07 the same, 08 would have been different but exciting in a different way (less?), 09 would have gone to the last round but not been a thriller, 10 would have been less exciting as there was a glimmer of hope that Alonso would get P4, whereas under the new system, there was no chance he'd get the title, 11, 13 would have been done and dusted. 2012 might have been more exciting, but that was already a great race.

It isn't the equivalent of having a World Cup final, it's the equivalent of having goals count for double during the last 10 minutes of the final. You also have driver/team combinations that suit one circuit and not another. This is saying that Abu Dhabi is worth twice as much as nailing 78 laps of Monaco. Which is total bullshit.

The Premier League proposed a 39th game play-off and got ridiculed, yet this is pretty much what F1 has done.

---

According to Sky Sports, this isn't yet set in stone so maybe it'll change: 'This is an idea, it is not set in stone - yet. Even though this is a pronouncement from the FIA, the sport's governing body, I think there is still some wriggle room if this proves to be very unpopular. The reason they have done it is to spice up the last race of the season, and they have certainly done that,. This is a major break form F1 tradition and judging from the reaction on social media, it has not gone down well.'

Very well put. I totally agree with you.

James B · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:52 am

The only championships that it would make a difference to are those wrapped up with 1 race to go. And yet all the classic examples of those in recent times were concluded in pretty exciting, dramatic ways anyway - 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991 (ish), 2000, 2009

I think the best way of describing it is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. If there's a problem that F1 has, it's not a lack of excitement. If you ask me, it's a lack of grounding in reality because it's getting away from the sport that I grew up watching, and that's partly due to too many cheap gimmicks

People in F1 don't seem to understand the basic principle that adding more to the discourse doesn't make things more interesting, but that it does make it increasingly contrived and more difficult to follow. This isn't about us - they think it'll attract the casual audience if they try and keep the championship alive as long as possible. But the casual audience isn't so stupid that they wouldn't see through this - they'd just be more alienated by the increasing complexity of it. You explain this to a "casual" F1 viewer and they won't say "wow, that's a good idea" - they'll say "fucking Bernie messing around with it again to try and make more money". They know what's happening

This is of course providing they are serious about this, which I doubt they are

Mika Kimi · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:59 am

phil1993 wrote:

Double points for the last round of the year!
http://www.fia.com/formula-one-regulation-changes

I'm starting to hate the FIA more than I hate Bernie.

aerogi · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:20 am

If they want to give double points for the final round (which I don't like as an idea), then it should happen at a classic F1 track like Brazil, Spa (too late in the year unfortunately), Monza, Suzuka or Silverstone. Because such a round would deserve a huge and enthusiastic crowd, on a track that is not very forgiving when getting off track, were you have to play with (possible) weather conditions etc

Abu Dhabi would be like the worst possible option...

phil1993 · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:44 am

Ricciardo & Bottas both say having their own number is cool, so at least the FIA has done that right.

aerogi · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:53 am

I wonder who will go for number 13... when was the last time that number had been used in F1?

And I wonder if there might be possible conflicts... imagine for some reason Kimi wants number 17, but that number is concidered to be 'unlucky' in Italy...

mclaren2008 · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:16 pm

I wonder if anyone will take #27

Mika Kimi · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:49 pm

Is it likely that the FIA will cancel this double points plan due to the criticism it gets?

Not that the FIA/Bernie ever listens to anyone, but the criticism is pretty heavy.

stimaro · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:50 pm

aerogi wrote:

I wonder who will go for number 13... when was the last time that number had been used in F1?

You'll like this article.
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/why-there-is-no-number-13-in-formula-1/

DinoMarko93 · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:53 pm

The problem with double points is,like someone said,that the race where they are given is dull,okay,we might see 10-15% more risking,but to be honest,Abu Dhabi is not a racetrack where big excitement is possible,also weather is not a factor,and without crazy crashes and situations like in 2012 we won't see much overtakes.

phil1993 · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:57 pm

With the numbers, they need to make sure they're visible on the cars. Should be mandatory to have it on the rear wing endplate, like GP2.

Force India has theirs on the front wing, practically out of sight

stimaro · PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:19 pm

phil1993 wrote:

With the numbers, they need to make sure they're visible on the cars. Should be mandatory to have it on the rear wing endplate, like GP2.

Well, just a thought... But there should be a rule that the drivers should choose a helmet design and STAY with that design the whole season (or rest of their career).

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