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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:08 pm 
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I love those what if scenarios. The most optimistic one I've read about Senna is that he would go on to win 1994, 95, 96 and 97. Safety wouldn't develop so Schumacher would die from that crash in Silverstone 99, Senna would take his place and win one more for Ferrari

Then years later he would be team principal at Honda until they bail out from failure so Senna go on and buy the operation founding the Senna GP to win the 2009 world championship

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:00 pm 
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LucasWheldon wrote:
I love those what if scenarios. The most optimistic one I've read about Senna is that he would go on to win 1994, 95, 96 and 97. Safety wouldn't develop so Schumacher would die from that crash in Silverstone 99, Senna would take his place and win one more for Ferrari

Then years later he would be team principal at Honda until they bail out from failure so Senna go on and buy the operation founding the Senna GP to win the 2009 world championship


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:20 pm 
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James B wrote:
Vassago wrote:
My idea always was Senna would have retired after 1997 once Williams lost the works Renault engines (that's assuming he never went to Ferrari after 1994/95 but with Schumacher being on their list I'm pretty sure he wouldn't). Senna would never put up with the Mecachrome impostor after the 1992/93 McLaren drama.


Hmm, I don't think Senna would have retired as champion - he was far too driven by winning, and if he was winning races and titles, he'd have wanted to keep winning. Assuming he wins 1996 and 1997 in your scenario at the very least, I think he'd want to give it another go in 1998. It just depends on if he'd have stood for "the Mecachrome impostor". I remember at the time there was great confidence around Williams that there would be no real change since Mecachrome were making the Renault engines anyway so it would just be a different badge. Obviously history tells us a different story now

There are a couple of other things to take into account, though. One is those grooved tyres and narrower cars for 1998. The other is the possibility of going back to McLaren - I think Senna finishing his career back there would have been far more likely than him finishing it at Ferrari in the end, especially if we're assuming Michael would have gone there anyway. I suppose we could assume a bizarro worst/best case scenario where Ayrton leaves Williams after winning 1995, 1996 and 1997 to rejoin McLaren and immediately win 1998, 1999 and maybe even 2000. But that's probably overestimating his abilities

It's amazing, though - the first of the articles I did has another alternative scenario, where McLaren pick Piquet over Senna for 1988 (which is what they wanted to do, until Prost persuaded them otherwise), which basically leads to a potential timeline where Senna never wins the title at all. There are fine margins and so much comes down to the choices drivers and teams make - or, when you're coming up with these scenarios, the decisions you think they'd have made

I've said for a long time that what we need is the equivalent of a revamped, fully licensed Motorsport Manager covering F1, F2 and F3 where you can start it at any point between 1968 and 2018. Let the computers decide


The biggest question would be 1997 when Villeneuve could have beaten him for the WDC. And in this case I think he would have retired given his age. Villeneuve had some mental errors in 1997 but HHF didn't push his as much as someone like Senna probably would have. 1998 was a shock in Melbourne which I remember, nobody quite expected McLaren beating everyone by such a margin in quals & race and it got even bigger in Brazil.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:52 pm 
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The only reason JV was at Williams was because Senna died and the team were looking for a replacement. Frentzen wasn’t available for 1996 and the team never got behind Hill.

Had Senna not died then JV wouldn’t have been placed at Williams, most likely his F1 debut would have been delayed by a couple of years or not happened at all.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:54 pm 
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And no JV perhaps means no BAR and therefore no Mercedes - Hamilton domination :8:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:53 pm 
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So it's all Jacques' fault.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:57 pm 
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kals wrote:
The only reason JV was at Williams was because Senna died and the team were looking for a replacement. Frentzen wasn’t available for 1996 and the team never got behind Hill.

Had Senna not died then JV wouldn’t have been placed at Williams, most likely his F1 debut would have been delayed by a couple of years or not happened at all.


If I remember right, Jacques wanted Team Green to switch to Honda and Firestone tires for 1996. Can anyone confirm?

Of course, they did just that 1997 onwards after a disastrous 1996 season with Boesel. 1997 yielded only marginally better results though.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:13 am 
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Fabs wrote:
And no JV perhaps means no BAR and therefore no Mercedes - Hamilton domination :8:


So who does Ken Tyrrell sell out to them, be it 1998 or later?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:10 pm 
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kals wrote:
Fabs wrote:
And no JV perhaps means no BAR and therefore no Mercedes - Hamilton domination :8:


So who does Ken Tyrrell sell out to them, be it 1998 or later?


to David Richards. Prodrive went on, stays at midfielder until they eventually sell out to Mercedes but without the development they had, stays like Renault is nowadays

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:49 pm 
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Ralf Schumacher world champion.

I'd make it my mission to travel through every possible parallel universe (what a guy) to see if that was possible, but I doubt there's one where that even comes close to happening :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:56 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:16 pm 
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codename_47 wrote:
Ralf Schumacher world champion.

I'd make it my mission to travel through every possible parallel universe (what a guy) to see if that was possible, but I doubt there's one where that even comes close to happening :lol:


There is no parallel universe that exists where Ralf Schumacher would become F1 World Champion, even the parallel universe populated by nothing other then identical copies of Ralf Schumacher.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:08 am 
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As much as everyone here loves to rag on Ralf, he won more races than many drivers put on a pedestal here. Had he won a championship he'd be no worse a one-hit wonder than Villeneuve.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:31 am 
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Philthy82 wrote:
As much as everyone here loves to rag on Ralf, he won more races than many drivers put on a pedestal here. Had he won a championship he'd be no worse a one-hit wonder than Villeneuve.

I wouldn't exactly say Villeneuve is legendary but calling one of only 3 drivers ever to win the Indy 500, an F1 championship and an Indycar championship just "a one hit wonder", is a bit harsh.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:26 am 
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Scott Goodyear won the 1995 Indy 500 but the pace car driver decided to be a dick

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:49 pm 
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Philthy82 wrote:
As much as everyone here loves to rag on Ralf, he won more races than many drivers put on a pedestal here. Had he won a championship he'd be no worse a one-hit wonder than Villeneuve.


The problem with the two drivers mentioned is that they had masses of unfulfilled potential. Both were great talents who plateaued far too soon, spending the latter stage of their F1 careers mired in mediocrity. Hence why they both get ragged on.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:13 pm 
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ends up rewarding those who ends being in the right place, the right time

like when Jenson Button had those contract issues when he was at BAR forcing into Williams and straining his career at Honda until he got his lucky shot at Brawn

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:05 pm 
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Coulthard, Barrichello, Massa, Irvine, Montoya, Webber could all have become world champion.

Half of the current grid could be world champion had they been in the Mercedes.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:41 am 
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kals wrote:
Philthy82 wrote:
As much as everyone here loves to rag on Ralf, he won more races than many drivers put on a pedestal here. Had he won a championship he'd be no worse a one-hit wonder than Villeneuve.


The problem with the two drivers mentioned is that they had masses of unfulfilled potential. Both were great talents who plateaued far too soon, spending the latter stage of their F1 careers mired in mediocrity. Hence why they both get ragged on.


I'm not sure Ralf had that much unfulfilled potential. I'd argue that he's the classic example of a driver who almost totally maximised it - perhaps ignoring the last year or two where he clearly lost motivation. But I agree that he was better than people give him. His "even a bad driver can win a race" quote would be up there with Webber's "not bad for a number 2 driver" if he'd said it in the social media age


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:50 am 
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If it wasnt for his brother I doubt Ralf would have made it to F1 at all.

Being the younger brother opened up a lot of doors to teams and more importantly, sponsors.


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