TBK-Light.com :: Do you want Kimi to retire at the end of this season?

basically I am kind of confused as to what you are saying, it just seems like too much "only as good as your last race/year" syndrome

people said "no he'll be better" last year, the year he won the title

BillBuckner wrote:

people said "no he'll be better" last year, the year he won the title

It's not all about results, he won it by the skin of his teeth and with a big dose of luck. He went off the boil a bit in the middle of that year too, but managed to recover, however this year the downturn seems to be continuing for longer.

Do you now rate Kimi higher or lower than you did at the end of 2006?

Exactly.

About the same, because Kimi was terrible in 2006?

EB wrote:

BillBuckner wrote:

people said "no he'll be better" last year, the year he won the title

About the same, because Kimi was terrible in 2006? I can remember one really, really good performance by him, at Bahrain.

And Raikkonen wasn't spectacular in '07, but I can't think of a single honest mistake he did, past the offs at Fuji that didn't figure much into it anyway. Massa, Hamilton, Alonso? Not at all.

Kimi isn't comfortable in the car. Never has been at Ferrari, it suits Massa's style more than Kimi's. Last year, he and Dyer found something in the setup of the car that he really liked, this year they haven't found that. Would you say that Massa was embarassing Kimi after Magny Cours? Or Silverstone? That was 3 races ago, it is very much a case of it being "as good as his last race(s)".

Lasek99 wrote:

BillBuckner wrote:

EB wrote:

BillBuckner wrote:

people said "no he'll be better" last year, the year he won the title

He blew the doors off of Montoya. He had exceptional drives at Melbourne, Nurburgring, Barcelona, Hockenheim, Monza, and China considering how much of a dog that McLaren was.

Montoya was well and truly unmotivated in '06. The Mclaren might have been bad, but I got the impression that he was just biding time until the Ferrari at the end of the year.

Author:	ZL11 [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:55 pm ]
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I think it is safe to say Raikkonen is a better driver than Massa. You know, Raikkonen kinda did bring them both titles home last season after all, I don't think you can call him overpaid after that. If Ferrari didn't pay him, he'd be a thorn in their sides with McLaren.

Author:	JB-F1 [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:05 pm ]
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People said "wait until next year" last year, and now look what's happening The thing with Kimi isn't that he's performed badly for 1 race or 2 races. He hasn't won since Spain, and has only looked like winning once since. Massa's looked good in most of the races so far, to be fair. His last 2 performances have been really, really good - and you all know how much I've criticised him in the past I can't honestly see how Kimi can come back now, even if he wins at Spa. Unless we have more detonating engines, he'll struggle to beat Massa now. Last year he had momentum to overtake him and the McLaren boys, as well as Spygate and Lewis' breakdown to win the title. This year he has no momentum, nothing outside the racing (other than more pressure on himself from the fans, media etc), and I can't see Lewis making the same mistakes. Massa might but Kimi has 2 drivers in front of him If he was to win the title, it would be even more due to luck than last year. A championship might be an accumulation of 18 races, but at the end of the season only 1 race matters. And to win the title, you've got to be in the position to be able to win it. It took a near-miracle last year, which was all he deserved after years of bad luck. But this year would take an even taller order and/or an even bigger miracle. He's got to completely reverse all momentum at the top by extracting everything he's got. And now he's won the title once already, I don't think he's got the desire to do that. And I don't see Lewis and Massa dropping out of most of the last 6 races. Even then, he'll still have Heikki, who has momentum himself after his win, Kubica, and the rest of the field to beat. He's been barely beating them lately

Author:	JB-F1 [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:44 pm ]
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BillBuckner wrote: basically I am kind of confused as to what you are saying, it just seems like too much "only as good as your last race/year" syndrome Nah, it's more than that. Kimi hasn't looked like the same driver this year - see Australia, Monaco and the last 4 races. He's made a lot more mistakes and he's been way off the pace in quali on a number of occasions. And you can't say the reason for that is the fuel because he hasn't been going particularly long either I don't think it's just a case of Massa getting better, because I still don't rate Massa as good as Kimi's ultimate potential. But Kimi's only been on top of his game a couple of times this year, which is unlike him. Normally when he's erratic he's back on top of his game a race or 2 later. But it's been continuous under-performing for most of this season. Being the world class driver he is, he should be on top of the tyre issue by now so that's no excuse

Author:	EB [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:47 pm ]
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BillBuckner wrote: people said "no he'll be better" last year, the year he won the title It's not all about results, he won it by the skin of his teeth and with a big dose of luck. He went off the boil a bit in the middle of that year too, but managed to recover, however this year the downturn seems to be continuing for longer. Do you now rate Kimi higher or lower than you did at the end of 2006? Exactly.

Author:	ZL11 [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:47 pm ]
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Kimi isn't comfortable in the car. Never has been at Ferrari, it suits Massa's style more than Kimi's. Last year, he and Dyer found something in the setup of the car that he really liked, this year they haven't found that. Would you say that Massa was embarassing Kimi after Magny Cours? Or Silverstone? That was 3 races ago, it is very much a case of it being "as good as his last race(s)".

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Author:	Fox [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:48 pm ]
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I think that he got bored from Racing after all that Years and after he won the WDC! In the last Races he just woke up after 70% of the Race was over. But I think he will come back.

Author:	Chris A [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:49 pm ]
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I don't quite get it either. Unless it's something Kimi just flat out wanted to do for personal reasons, I can't even fathom a reason for him to be retiring right now or any time soon.

Author:	ZL11 [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:50 pm ]
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EB wrote: BillBuckner wrote: people said "no he'll be better" last year, the year he won the title It's not all about results, he won it by the skin of his teeth and with a big dose of luck. He went off the boil a bit in the middle of that year too, but managed to recover, however this year the downturn seems to be continuing for longer. Do you now rate Kimi higher or lower than you did at the end of 2006? Exactly. Yep, it was all luck. Without "luck" like his races at Barcelona and Nurburgring, he wouldn't have needed Lewis to screw up two races in a row, he could've just beaten him (like he did) and won the title.

Author:	EB [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:50 pm ]
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BillBuckner wrote: About the same, because Kimi was terrible in 2006? OK, prob should have said 2005, but you have proved my point nevertheless. You don't rate him any higher now despite having since won a WDC? Anyway, to answer the question, he's too young to retire, he should continue for a few more years yet.

Author:	ZL11 [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:51 pm ]
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BillBuckner wrote: EB wrote: BillBuckner wrote: people said "no he'll be better" last year, the year he won the title It's not all about results, he won it by the skin of his teeth and with a big dose of luck. He went off the boil a bit in the middle of that year too, but managed to recover, however this year the downturn seems to be continuing for longer. Do you now rate Kimi higher or lower than you did at the end of 2006? Exactly. About the same, because Kimi was terrible in 2006? I can remember one really, really good performance by him, at Bahrain. And Raikkonen wasn't spectacular in '07, but I can't think of a single honest mistake he did, past the offs at Fuji that didn't figure much into it anyway. Massa, Hamilton, Alonso? Not at all. He blew the doors off of Montoya. He had exceptional drives at Melbourne, Nurburgring, Barcelona, Hockenheim, Monza, and China considering how much of a dog that McLaren was.

Author:	Chris A [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:51 pm ]
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Not making mistakes can often be just as important as running well. It all adds up in the end anyways.

Author:	JB-F1 [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:52 pm ]
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Lasek99 wrote: Kimi isn't comfortable in the car. Never has been at Ferrari, it suits Massa's style more than Kimi's. Last year, he and Dyer found something in the setup of the car that he really liked, this year they haven't found that. Would you say that Massa was embarassing Kimi after Magny Cours? Or Silverstone? That was 3 races ago, it is very much a case of it being "as good as his last race(s)". Depends on whether that's with or without hindsight

Author:	ZL11 [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:54 pm ]
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BillBuckner wrote: Lasek99 wrote: BillBuckner wrote: EB wrote: BillBuckner wrote: people said "no he'll be better" last year, the year he won the title It's not all about results, he won it by the skin of his teeth and with a big dose of luck. He went off the boil a bit in the middle of that year too, but managed to recover, however this year the downturn seems to be continuing for longer. Do you now rate Kimi higher or lower than you did at the end of 2006? Exactly. About the same, because Kimi was terrible in 2006? I can remember one really, really good performance by him, at Bahrain. And Raikkonen wasn't spectacular in '07, but I can't think of a single honest mistake he did, past the offs at Fuji that didn't figure much into it anyway. Massa, Hamilton, Alonso? Not at all. He blew the doors off of Montoya. He had exceptional drives at Melbourne, Nurburgring, Barcelona, Hockenheim, Monza, and China considering how much of a dog that McLaren was. Montoya was well and truly unmotivated in '06. The Mclaren might have been bad, but I got the impression that he was just biding time until the Ferrari at the end of the year. I feel its exactly the opposite. He was hell bent on getting a win, Monza qualifying is a good example, as well as his incredible first lap at China in the wet late in the season.

Author:	JB-F1 [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:04 pm ]
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Yeah, I always felt Kimi did a good job in 2006. He was unlucky on a couple of occasions - Monaco, especially, as I thought he could win that (although Webber could've beaten both of them). The car got further behind as the year went on and Kimi signed the Ferrari deal quite early on so I guess he just gave up, and I don't really blame him tbh. I think it was quite clear before the last race with his response to Brundle on the grid

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Author:	ZL11 [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:07 pm ]
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I forgot Monaco somehow, probably would've won that race if not for the SC. Also, I think he would've won Montreal had he not had his pit stop(s) screwed up.

Author:	Gabriel [ Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:17 am ]
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I think Kimi will win at Spa next week and that will give him an extra boost for the end of the season, to bounce back and to be a factor in the championship again.