TBK-Light.com :: Who most deserved ?

I don't believe that Massa was the best this year (I come back to Kubica and Alonso), but I don't see how one very bad weekend doesn't mean he didn't perform very well.

PAXTON wrote:

AutoRacer5 wrote:

Massa. He had to give up his home race last year to help Raikkonen.

That's a stupid reason. For a stupid poll

The one who won it, deserved it, because HE SCORED MORE POINTS FFS!

If was stupid, why you participated? :whistling:

ryan86 wrote:

I don't believe that Massa was the best this year (I come back to Kubica and Alonso), but I don't see how one very bad weekend doesn't mean he didn't perform very well.

Same goes for Lewis and all the people who say he didn't deserve to win because of Canada. And yet he was severly punished for that

Massa made a few big mistakes this year that cost him points, more than Lewis

Lewis screwed up in: Malaysia [2 points], Bahrain [6 points], Monaco [just so happens it was at the right time], Canada [8 points], Italy [6 points], Fuji [10 points]
Massa screwed up in: Malaysia [8 points], Monaco [2 points], Silverstone [0 points] and Fuji [5 points].

I don't even like Lewis that much, though. But I can still see he has driven better than Massa this year. Lewis has made other drivers look like idiots in some races, whilst Massa has only made himself look like an idiot

If you want to say that Massa never won out of the front row, fine that's true, but Lewis is not much better. Alonso and Kimi did much better recover races, more Lewis oftenly noobs went is behind.

Artur Craft wrote:

If you want to say that Massa never won out of the front row, fine that's true, but Lewis is not much better. Alonso and Kimi did much better recover races, more Lewis oftenly noobs went is behind.

If you seriously doubt Lewis' racing ability, you should watch some of his GP2 races tbh

JB-F1 wrote:

Artur Craft wrote:

If you want to say that Massa never won out of the front row, fine that's true, but Lewis is not much better. Alonso and Kimi did much better recover races, more Lewis oftenly noobs went is behind.

If you seriously doubt Lewis' racing ability, you should watch some of his GP2 races tbh

I did, he was the best I saw in GP2 history, but that was GP2.

In F1, even with a top team car he didn't do anything like that.

Have Lewis won without starting from the front row? Or from out P2 after T1?

Author:	JB-F1 [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
Adding up the scores is arbitrary Massa hasn't been the best driver this year. Silverstone is proof of that. He has improved massively in the time he has been at Ferrari but it still lacking something as a driver to make him a complete package. He still hasn't won from outside the front row, for a start

Author:	NextDimensional- [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
I say, Felipe beat Kimi this year so high.. And i think one thing that what matters is attitude, and that is really what makes Massa and Raikkonen both so different drivers.. What about Felipe dominating Turkey GP every year since 2006?

Author:	JB-F1 [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
So what about Istanbul? It just so happens to be a circuit that has suited Ferrari and Massa very well. You cannot judge a driver's talent on 1 circuit or type of circuit. That's just ridiculous Kimi will be back next year. The cars will suit him a lot more, I think

Author:	ryan86 [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
But surely then you end up with the fact that no driver is driver of the year because with all drivers I could point to one race where I believe their performance was disappointing. I don't believe that Massa was the best this year (I come back to Kubica and Alonso), but I don't see how one very bad weekend doesn't mean he didn't perform very well.

Author:	JB-F1 [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
ryan86 wrote: I don't believe that Massa was the best this year (I come back to Kubica and Alonso), but I don't see how one very bad weekend doesn't mean he didn't perform very well. Same goes for Lewis and all the people who say he didn't deserve to win because of Canada. And yet he was severly punished for that Massa made a few big mistakes this year that cost him points, more than Lewis

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Author:	Lita [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
Hamilton deserved it up until he let Vettel pass him. It was the lowest position he needed and he couldn't even defend it, despite being in a defensive strategy all weekend. I would have been delighted to see Massa take it at that point. It's a shame Renault weren't up there all season. Alonso would have been a great addition to the mix. So out of the two choices, I voted for Massa.

Author:	Gabriel [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
dannydiaspinto21 wrote: PAXTON wrote: AutoRacer5 wrote: Massa. He had to give up his home race last year to help Raikkonen. That's a stupid reason. For a stupid poll The one who won it, deserved it, because HE SCORED MORE POINTS FFS! If was stupid, why you participated? I didn't. I haven't voted and i won't.

Author:	racefan [ Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
I think they both deserved the title.

Author:	Magnifico [ Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
JB-F1 wrote: ryan86 wrote: I don't believe that Massa was the best this year (I come back to Kubica and Alonso), but I don't see how one very bad weekend doesn't mean he didn't perform very well. Same goes for Lewis and all the people who say he didn't deserve to win because of Canada. And yet he was severly punished for that Massa made a few big mistakes this year that cost him points, more than Lewis No he didnt. Simply put. Lewis lost himself about 20 points through his own stupidity while Massa lost a few due to his messing up and a truckload due to Ferrari screwing it up for him. Had Ferrari been as reliable as even 2007 he would have won the title easily. Lewis screwed up in: Malaysia [2 points], Bahrain [6 points], Monaco [just so happens it was at the right time], Canada [8 points], Italy [6 points], Fuji [10 points] Massa screwed up in: Malaysia [8 points], Monaco [2 points], Silverstone [0 points] and Fuji [5 points]. Massa also had the well documented car failures in Australia [3 points], Hungary [10 points] and Team Failures in Montreal [2 points] and Singapore [6 points]. Lewis made more mistakes which cost him more than Massa. It was a case of Ferrari handing it to Lewis and Lewis in turn trying his damn best to not accept their gift. To use one race, Silverstone, as an indication of a lack of talent/improvement is blinded but arguing with you is pointless JB-F1. You seem to change your opinion every two weeks. At the end of the day Lewis is champion and thats what the record books will remember

Author:	Ratpman [ Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
Kubica because he didn't make any mistakes during the season !!! They both deserved the title but Hamilton got more points than Massa so he win the championship, that's all

Author:	JB-F1 [ Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
Magnifico wrote: Lewis screwed up in: Malaysia [2 points], Bahrain [6 points], Monaco [just so happens it was at the right time], Canada [8 points], Italy [6 points], Fuji [10 points] Massa screwed up in: Malaysia [8 points], Monaco [2 points], Silverstone [0 points] and Fuji [5 points]. lol, so when Lewis makes a mistake early on in the race he loses the maximum number of points he could've won, but when Massa makes a mistake early on he loses the minimum. Incredibly fair

Author:	Omega [ Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
you can't just talk about which point they lost, but also which points they gained! For example: Massa won 2 in France, 2 in China, 2 or 4 in Spa (and compared to Hamilton he won 6). McLaren had teamorders aswell, but less obvious. They made sure that Heikki was behind from the start.

Author:	kals [ Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
I'm struggling to see how you can justify these points as well. But hey, it's all in the past now and pointless argueing (pardon the pun). Regardless of what championship year we discuss, we can point out certain factors which affected the end results. Doesn't matter if is 1987, 1999 or 2003. The fact of the matter is that Hamilton scored more than Massa and he became a deserved Champion. End of.

Author:	Omega [ Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
And to be clear: I don't care about this. It's just fun to read how the fanboys try to analyse all in their own right and get angry when they can't

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Author:	JB-F1 [ Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
I don't even like Lewis that much, though. But I can still see he has driven better than Massa this year. Lewis has made other drivers look like idiots in some races, whilst Massa has only made himself look like an idiot

Author:	Artur Craft [ Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
JB-F1 wrote: I don't even like Lewis that much, though. But I can still see he has driven better than Massa this year. Lewis has made other drivers look like idiots in some races, whilst Massa has only made himself look like an idiot I agree with you in some stuff: Ferrari developed the car in a wrong way for Kimi, this year does not reflect his potencial, although I don't know anymore if he is better than Massa. Lewis deserves the championship, as Massa would have. But about this last thing you said. There was a driver that appeared very ridicolous to me in Hungary, even with a much better car looked like a medium driver. About other thing said before, Lewis only had 1 race where he went good starting from behind(Monza in which he was good until his better setuped car was not eficient anymore). If you want to say that Massa never won out of the front row, fine that's true, but Lewis is not much better. Alonso and Kimi did much better recover races, and Lewis oftenly noobs when is behind.

Author:	JB-F1 [ Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
Artur Craft wrote: If you want to say that Massa never won out of the front row, fine that's true, but Lewis is not much better. Alonso and Kimi did much better recover races, more Lewis oftenly noobs went is behind. If you seriously doubt Lewis' racing ability, you should watch some of his GP2 races tbh

Author:	Artur Craft [ Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
JB-F1 wrote: Artur Craft wrote: If you want to say that Massa never won out of the front row, fine that's true, but Lewis is not much better. Alonso and Kimi did much better recover races, more Lewis oftenly noobs went is behind. If you seriously doubt Lewis' racing ability, you should watch some of his GP2 races tbh I did, he was the best I saw in GP2 history, but that was GP2. In F1, even with a top team car he didn't do anything like that. Have Lewis won without starting from the front row? Or from out P2 after T1?

Author:	JB-F1 [ Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
Artur Craft wrote: JB-F1 wrote: Artur Craft wrote: If you want to say that Massa never won out of the front row, fine that's true, but Lewis is not much better. Alonso and Kimi did much better recover races, more Lewis oftenly noobs went is behind. If you seriously doubt Lewis' racing ability, you should watch some of his GP2 races tbh I did, he was the best I saw in GP2 history, but that was GP2. In F1, even with a top team car he didn't do anything like that. Have Lewis won without starting from the front row? Or from out P2 after T1? Monaco and Silverstone he won from the 2nd row, but as you said he was P2 after T1. But he's still pulled off some mighty impressive moves and has generally looked like a racer. Bar Hungary, when he really impressed me, Massa has just trundled around in whatever position he's in at the time unless there's a slower car in front

Author:	Artur Craft [ Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Who most deserved ?
I just hope BMW and Renault can catch the current tops, so we can see the true potencial of Hamilton and Massa, and also hope this new regs really allows overtakings so we can have a magnificent season in terms of battles and driving skills. The drivers are excelent, at least.