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2013 Random F1 Discussion
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Author:  kals [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
Some of those examples are questionable. For instance, Dome did far more that USF1 ever did. They got a fully functioning car on track. As for Prodrive, that's not a good comparison as their entry was based on the allowance of customer cars, something that Williams objected to. I don't remember much about early 90's BMW or Reynard.

USF1 were the first team to be awarded an entry under the new 2010 rules and yet only got less than half a chassis completed.
Author:  LucasWheldon [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
kals wrote:
I don't think that's what Micha was referring too.


oops sorry, thought it was american based teams

but USF1 was a huge fiasco, they only had a front wing and some tricks to get argentine funding

anyway would love to see USF1 livery
Author:  micha [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
kals wrote:
Some of those examples are questionable. For instance, Dome did far more that USF1 ever did. They got a fully functioning car on track. As for Prodrive, that's not a good comparison as their entry was based on the allowance of customer cars, something that Williams objected to. I don't remember much about early 90's BMW or Reynard.

USF1 were the first team to be awarded an entry under the new 2010 rules and yet only got less than half a chassis completed.



But if they actually would enter the 2014 or 2015 grid, it's still a better attempt than any other that never entered a race. :p

Anyways, USF1 managed to fool us all. I think pretty much the entire forum here was enthusiastic about them at first. We gave them the best papers of all the new teams at first.
In the end the best of the new teams was the one with the least amount of preparation time.
Author:  Fish88 [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
kals wrote:
As for Prodrive, that's not a good comparison as their entry was based on the allowance of customer cars, something that Williams objected to. I don't remember much about early 90's BMW or Reynard.


No it wasn't. That costumer debacle was for the 2008 entry. Williams indeed blocked that. They later did a new attempt where they would build their own car just like eveyone else. But that entry was denied by dictator Mosley, because he felt assraped with that first attempt. He instead chose USF1, Manor and Campos F1.
Author:  phil1993 [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
I'd still like to find out what the decision process behind 2010 entries was.

Sauber only got their entry because Toyota pulled out, USF1 never made it, Campos failed and the team was only saved at the 11th hour by Kolles, while Manor didn't build a car with a big enough fuel tank.

The best organisation was the one who only got their entry when BMW-Sauber pulled out and that was Litespeed & Fernandes (under Lotus). They built a car and a team within six months, which was massively impressive.
Author:  kals [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
Fish88 wrote:
kals wrote:
As for Prodrive, that's not a good comparison as their entry was based on the allowance of customer cars, something that Williams objected to. I don't remember much about early 90's BMW or Reynard.


No it wasn't. That costumer debacle was for the 2008 entry. Williams indeed blocked that. They later did a new attempt where they would build their own car just like eveyone else. But that entry was denied by dictator Mosley, because he felt assraped with that first attempt. He instead chose USF1, Manor and Campos F1.


Good point. I'd forgotten about Prodrive being involved in the 2009 process. The reason Prodrive weren't awarded a sport is that their tender did not include Xtrac gearboxes and Cosworth engines.
Author:  kals [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
phil1993 wrote:
I'd still like to find out what the decision process behind 2010 entries was.

Sauber only got their entry because Toyota pulled out, USF1 never made it, Campos failed and the team was only saved at the 11th hour by Kolles, while Manor didn't build a car with a big enough fuel tank.

The best organisation was the one who only got their entry when BMW-Sauber pulled out and that was Litespeed & Fernandes (under Lotus). They built a car and a team within six months, which was massively impressive.


Correction #1 - Nick Wirth didn't build a car with a big enough fuel tank, but Timo Glock still managed to get that car to the finish of a GP before the error was corrected.

Correction #2 - Litespeed and Manor both received entries at the same time, so both built cars within six months of the start of 2010. Except that Litespeed had a team full of experienced F1 personnel. Manor did not. Manor also built a car using a technology that no-one had ever 100% adopted before, which was a very brave avenue to venture down. In addition, of those those teams one has a very large amount of resource available to it and has yet only just outpaced it's rival... So much for being the "best organisation".
Author:  NVirkkula [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
Thermal camera view at Suzuka already revealed that something fishy was happening at the T-tray area of Red Bull car.

Here's a slo-mo closeup of Webber's pitstop in the US GP.

https://plus.google.com/101443032616581166067/posts/AGjzdPLjUWf
Author:  siggy [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
NVirkkula wrote:
Thermal camera view at Suzuka already revealed that something fishy was happening at the T-tray area of Red Bull car.

Here's a slo-mo closeup of Webber's pitstop in the US GP.

https://plus.google.com/101443032616581166067/posts/AGjzdPLjUWf


Not sure what you're referring to, but if it's the grey vertical tiny 'bar', it looks more like a sensor or at the very least, already broken. Or it is a tension string and not a compression string. Doesn't look much more usefull than that.


Besides, what does this have to do with the thermal camera?
Author:  NVirkkula [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
siggy wrote:
NVirkkula wrote:
Thermal camera view at Suzuka already revealed that something fishy was happening at the T-tray area of Red Bull car.

Here's a slo-mo closeup of Webber's pitstop in the US GP.

https://plus.google.com/101443032616581166067/posts/AGjzdPLjUWf


Not sure what you're referring to, but if it's the grey vertical tiny 'bar', it looks more like a sensor or at the very least, already broken. Or it is a tension string and not a compression string. Doesn't look much more usefull than that.


Besides, what does this have to do with the thermal camera?



During the Japanese GP it was speculated that this part was heated to gain ground clearance advance in the T-tray area. Allegedly, that "string" part makes the floor flex when needed so the ground clearance is always ideal.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24659085

It's a clever design, as was Renault's mass damper in 2005-2006 or Ferrari's floor spring system in 2007. But what's interesting is that after flexi-wing ban in 2011, Red Bull was accused for using some heating system to make their front wing to flex on the track. Maybe they weren't but that might have given this idea to Newey...
Author:  NextDimensional- [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
Another F1 documentary coming up. This time about Jackie Stewart.
Author:  micha [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
NVirkkula wrote:
But what's interesting is that after flexi-wing ban in 2011, Red Bull was accused for using some heating system to make their front wing to flex on the track. Maybe they weren't but that might have given this idea to Newey...


A heating system is unnecessary weight
A heating system needs power and can fail.

I'm sorry but the whole theory just seems daft to me.
Author:  Cheeveer [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
NextDimensional- wrote:
Another F1 documentary coming up. This time about Jackie Stewart.



Remastered. That one was originally released in 1972. Worth seeing.
Author:  mclaren2008 [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
they need to make more of these feat. modern drivers and cars
Author:  codename_47 [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
*Bitching, whining about tyres, DRS, conservation, backing off etc*

Just give me 2012 back, that's all I ask

After all the B.S. that's happened this year, 2012 seems like a golden season with only the ugly noses being the thing worth moaning about.
This season seems like it's been dragged through a bush and flogged until its nearly dead in comparison to such a healthy season as last year, when F1 seemed like it was on the up and up.

If I was Pirelli I'd have walked away from the sport long ago due to all the shit the teams and the FIA have put them through.
They must be getting some serious revenue and publicity out of the sport to deal with all the negativity from the teams and uneducated fans who blame them for F1s problems.

As for DRS, I'm a fan of it but I just wish they'd only use it at certain tracks.
There's no need for it on the Kemmel straight where every single overtake was a drive by in a straight line due to the length of the straight BEFORE DRS.
Hungary was a great race due to in part DRS allowing the cars to follow closely, there have been a few other examples where DRS has made previously boring tracks more exiting too.
Sadly though, there's too many examples where DRS isn't needed on already exciting tracks where it's still used, and that's hurting its reputation.
It always was supposed to be a short term solution while the FIA and teams thought about a new way to allow the cars follow closely
*cough* Ground effect *cough*

It seems we're stuck with it now.

Di Montezemelo today has said he's tired of the sport being a 90% Aerodynamic formula.
For the first time ever I agree with him.
Author:  phil1993 [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
I think you just get circumstance some of the time - last season no-one nailed it and you had an average car leading the way until Spa time thanks to its driver [Alonso]. It was the perfect storm really.

The problem is that the cars can't follow each other closely enough and until that's resolved, you'll still get problems. You can't rely on tyres/DRS all the time :p It does make me laugh when people wait for the return of Michelin or Bridgestone, while forgetting that we'd be in the same predicament.

But then again, 2013 hasn't been massively terrible. Sometimes you need meh years to make the good years seem better.
Author:  LucasWheldon [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
plus with ground effect cars would be wider and look better IMO
Author:  kals [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
codename_47 wrote:
*Bitching, whining about tyres, DRS, conservation, backing off etc*

Just give me 2012 back, that's all I ask.


It was exactly the same in 2012. What are you talking about?
Author:  Fabs [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
lmao
Author:  codename_47 [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 Random F1 Discussion
kals wrote:
codename_47 wrote:
*Bitching, whining about tyres, DRS, conservation, backing off etc*

Just give me 2012 back, that's all I ask.


It was exactly the same in 2012. What are you talking about?


Maybe it's just rose tinted glasses but in 2012 the races seemed more action packed and obviously the championship was closer.
The first part of the season with different winners in the first 8 races or whatever it was felt like a new age of F1 where everything we knew about the sport and it's lack of competitiveness was thrown out the window and suddenly anyone could win.
Reminded me of all those batshit insane Champcar street and road course races of the late 90s/early 2000s where it seemed anyone could win....
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