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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:26 pm 
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Fabs wrote:
But then teams won't get as much money :cry: :cry:


you spelled Bernie wrong.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:28 pm 
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lol and the teams, not everything is about Bernie.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:38 pm 
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codename_47 wrote:
Anyone who watches a race like Bahrain or hockenheim this year and tries to argue how it wasn't great racing I think need to asl themselves if f1 will ever be good enough for them.
Because after years of refuelling, traction control and aerodyamic based parades with tyres from a company who cared only about their reputation and wouldn't play the game to improve the show, running grooved tyres....well compared to that f1 2014 for all its faults, is bliss


I don't disagree with this at all. I will take 2014 over 2002 all day long. I just think there a few things that need tweaking. The overtaking stats are probably at an all time high, yet I can only think of a handful of actual battles that lasted more than a few corners. Overtaking somebody should still be a skill, and a moment of excitement. If it's too easy, I don't think you have that, and that is my problem with DRS. Sometimes the zone is short enough that it's a perfect aid and the car ahead still has a fighting chance of defending their position, but often they've lost the place before they even reach the braking zone. This is exaggerated even more when the defending car is on old tyres. They simply don't have a chance. Pirelli are doing a great job with the tyres, but there's no point in trying to stay out on old tyres and gaining track position, because it's far too easy for everybody to DRS their way past you.

But as I said, it's better than not being able to overtake at all, and I'm happy that it's not like it was in the early 2000s.

For me, the biggest issue I have with F1 is the circuits. I can't stand the new circuits. They're horrible. I will admit Bahrain was fantastic last season, but it doesn't change my opinion. They're too wide. They're too forgiving. They're too similar. They're not challenging. You can gain time by making a mistake. And now some of the classics we're left with are being made the same way. I hate it. Why did Les Combes and Rivage need the tarmac treatment? Eau Rouge I can understand, but why every slow speed corner as well? Why did all of Hungary need tarmac? Why ruin that amazing sight of the cars right on the edge coming out of the Parabolica? If we put tarmac at Degner would that still be the same challenge? Yes, on an unforgiving circuit a driver might get stuck in the gravel and retire, or they might hit a barrier. Nobody wants to see a driver get hurt, but it's far more of a talking point if the race leader crashes out of the race rather than running wide and having his lead cut from 10 seconds to 9.3 seconds (you only need to look at the numbers on the forum when an incident happens). I don't want to start a big debate on safety vs danger, particularly after the Bianchi accident, but I stand by my opinion of the circuits being too forgiving.


So yeah, I like F1. I'm just not that fond of DRS, and I hate the way the circuits are going. :p Maybe I'm just being too picky and will always find a reason to moan. *shrug*


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:14 pm 
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Circuits are way too forgiving, that's why places like Suzuka and Monaco are loved so much. Everywhere else has been neutered to a point where drivers gain time from errors.

One thing all the new tracks lack, is trees.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:15 pm 
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Fabs wrote:
lol and the teams, not everything is about Bernie.


Current situation will cost them much more. Less viewers means their add spaces lower in value.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:46 pm 
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Add space may lower in value, but the income from the TV money will increase to compensate.

I like the idea of adding trees to tracks.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:07 pm 
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or add track to the trees, like good old hockenheim

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:51 pm 
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But but but if you add trees then the poor people watching at the track will only be able to see one part of the track.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:01 pm 
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you can hide in the trees in the forest and watch the cars blazing through at high revs doing speeds of over 340km/h

REAL RACING 8)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:03 pm 
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Oh boo fucking hoo. If its one of those rich Arab built tracks there's no spectators anyway. Or Korea...


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:18 pm 
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Agree 100% on the tracks being neutered to remove any sense of punishment for mistakes. I will say that is one thing I do actually like about American street circuits. They're quite punishing, with bumps and walls everywhere. It takes serious balls to push it to the limit. Just take a look at this lap of JPM qualifying at Detroit. It's legitimately scary just watching the in-car camera at times. He's on the ragged edge and barely in control and even scraping walls.



mclaren2008 wrote:
One thing all the new tracks lack, is trees.

YES. This is something that has really bothered me about the newer F1 tracks. My favorite tracks to look at have always been the ones with lots of trees. Spa, Monza, old Hockenheim, Road America, Mid-Ohio, the back side of Watkins Glen, etc.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:21 pm 
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The thing with DRS for me is that I still believe that it was the wrong solution to the problem.

Someone above mentioned Push to pass, That would have been a far better solution because its more fair than DRS in that everyone gets to use it x times or for x seconds a race & it can be used to defend as well as attack at any point around the circuit & its far easier to manage to ensure it works as an assist without making things too easy.

There are so many factors which go into how effective or not DRS is that I can't see them every getting it right on a consistent basis. Its not just about the length or placement of a DRS zone, Tyre life, Wind speed, Wind directions, How many cars are in the pack, Gear ratios, Wing levels & DRS flap design all play a role in how big a speed gain DRS produces & therefore how easy that DRS move therefore is.


With P2P everyone is getting the same power increase for the same amount of time & since its easier to tweak & manage over the years it's worked only as an assist with very few examples of it making things easier than they should be.
But the other thing I like about the P2P style systems is that its more in the drivers hands because having limited use anywhere round the circuit introduces some strategy as drivers have to decide when & where to use it & that over the years has often created some good fights & exciting moments.


DRS is a solution to the problem we had where overtaking was harder than it ideally should have been, But its not the only solution & some of those other solutions are better than DRS & I really think that those other solutions should be investigated instead of just sticking with the "DRS is working, Look at how many more position changes were seeing" line which many in F1 & many fans are adamantly sticking to.
For as long as that mentality remains then DRS will not only stay around but also become more relied upon & will simply start to filter down to the lower categories as we are seeing with its completely unneeded & unnecisary implementation into GP2 this year & WSBR the past few.

We have had DRS for 4 years now, Why not try something new.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:26 pm 
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Dan Belcher wrote:
Agree 100% on the tracks being neutered to remove any sense of punishment for mistakes. I will say that is one thing I do actually like about American street circuits. They're quite punishing, with bumps and walls everywhere. It takes serious balls to push it to the limit. Just take a look at this lap of JPM qualifying at Detroit. It's legitimately scary just watching the in-car camera at times. He's on the ragged edge and barely in control and even scraping walls.
pJhBIkpdFjw


and with 1000hp engined cars at tracks without long straights

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:18 pm 
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Gotta say I lol'd at this

Jenson Button's worst nightmare

Spoiler:
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:48 pm 
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Just watched monaco 2004. I remember that having an above average level of excitment
For that season so much so I even recorded the entire thing on a vhs.

Aside from the start drama (flipperz lol) the race is seen as a classic because Schumacher in the dominant Ferrari was out of position and was likely to fight his way through.
He did this in the first round of pit stops by pitting earlier than jenson and setting hot laps.
He was planning to do this after the final sc too, win the race by shooting ahead of Trull and setting enough quick lap times to come out in the lead after his final stop.
"Sit back and enjoy this ladies and gents' said cock commentator James Allen "this is going to be something special"
Then Micheal decided to foolishly do a stoppy in the tunnel and that ended that idea.
The point being it was seen as a classic race and at no point did the top 3 do anything but find their own empty piece of track to hotlap.
There were 2 overtakes in the entire race....Both of them JPM

And before anyone thinks "well obviously, monaco was like that. ..It's monaco!" Well such a thing was common back then, indeed Micheal used the same strategy to win France a couple of races later.

Races where the leaders "race" while 30 seconds apart must never be allowed to happen again.
At least when the Mercedes has problems this year they had to overtake their way back to the front.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:53 am 
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one to take note of - the Russian GP will start one hour earlier, at 14:00 local time (12:00 CET; 11:00 UKT)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:52 am 
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Tobias wrote:
one to take note of - the Russian GP will start one hour earlier, at 14:00 local time (12:00 CET; 11:00 UKT)


And in other news no one cares about...

On average, 100 people choke to death on ballpoint pens every year.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:28 am 
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kals wrote:
Tobias wrote:
one to take note of - the Russian GP will start one hour earlier, at 14:00 local time (12:00 CET; 11:00 UKT)


And in other news no one cares about...

On average, 100 people choke to death on ballpoint pens every year.


This is irrelevant to me ... I use a fountain pen.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:46 am 
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I used a quill pen to write my Superprix book...


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:57 am 
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personally, I have always had a particular affection for crayons.


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