2013 Random F1 Discussion

kals · PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:41 pm

Felipe Massa wrote:

I know both Fernando and Kimi on and off the track and I rate them as excellent drivers, but I'm afraid they will collide when sharing the team

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109920

Kimi and Fernando wrote:

Well at least we won't collide with the barrier like you often do

codename_47 · PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:33 am

Obviously he doesn't mean collide on track, rather in them trying to get the best out of the team...

The last time Kimi moved to Ferrari he caused one highly rated world champion to retire, it may well happen again tbh

Also poor Massa, expect a lot more technical failures from his car for the rest of the season

kals · PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:12 am

codename_47 wrote:

Obviously he doesn't mean collide on track, rather in them trying to get the best out of the team...

Well, yeah. Isn't that what I originally quoted...?

kals wrote:

Felipe Massa wrote:

I know both Fernando and Kimi on and off the track and I rate them as excellent drivers, but I'm afraid they will collide when sharing the team

NVirkkula · PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:23 am

StefMeister wrote:

Nicolas Todt has told Brazilian media that Massa had planned to leave Ferrari & that he finally decided to make the move because after he qualified 4th at Monza not one person from Ferrari went to him to say 'good job', The only response he got was people from the team asking why he didn't do a better job helping Alonso with a tow.

Luca di Montezemolo had also said that Massa will drive to help Alonso for the rest of this year.

Massa however has said this today on GloboTV:

Quote:

“I will not race for Alonso from now on. Right from Friday at Singapore I’ll be working for myself. I will attack all the time, every lap. It’s come the time to look after myself,”

That quote from Nicolas Todt makes no sense. During the Italian GP weekend it was already clear that Kimi is making a comeback. The only way this making any sense, would be that Alonso's seat was not secured at the time.

It is secured for the coming season, right? If not, I only see two options, Lotus or McLaren, if Santander gets the money together. McLaren and Santander are still doing business together and Honda on board for 2015 might be interesting combination with talented drivers.

Mika Kimi · PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:26 am

Yes Alonso is certain for next year. :thumbsup:

ellis · PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:05 am

Kimis manager stated directly to Brundle, and told him to repeat it on Sky, that Kimi was in talks with Lotus and that was the primary aim. That was Sunday morning.

I don't think the Kimi deal was done, but rather as soon as it was done they announced it whilst in Italy.

NVirkkula · PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:03 am

ellis wrote:

Kimis manager stated directly to Brundle, and told him to repeat it on Sky, that Kimi was in talks with Lotus and that was the primary aim. That was Sunday morning.

I don't think the Kimi deal was done, but rather as soon as it was done they announced it whilst in Italy.

Kimi's manager said to Finnish MTV3 in Spa that the deal with Ferrari is "rubbish" and there hasn't been any negotiations with the team. SuomiF1.com had stated in 1st of August that the deal was done at the end of July. Deals are always made weeks before the official announcements, before that, everything is denied and the focus is kept away from the facts.

ellis · PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:21 am

NVirkkula wrote:

ellis wrote:

Kimis manager stated directly to Brundle, and told him to repeat it on Sky, that Kimi was in talks with Lotus and that was the primary aim. That was Sunday morning.

I don't think the Kimi deal was done, but rather as soon as it was done they announced it whilst in Italy.

Kimi's manager said to Finnish MTV3 in Spa that the deal with Ferrari is "rubbish" and there hasn't been any negotiations with the team. SuomiF1.com had stated in 1st of August that the deal was done at the end of July. Deals are always made weeks before the official announcements, before that, everything is denied and the focus is kept away from the facts.

Normally I agree, however I suspect it was different here. Massas 'failure' to help Alonso and Ferrari being in Italy meant that if the deal was made on the Sunday night, they'd announce on Monday morning. They wouldn't lose the chance to announce Kimi at Monza. Had the deal been done in advance then they'd have told us during the race weekend.

NVirkkula · PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:17 pm

Except that the contract has a note that Kimi is the one who decide's the announcement date, according to Pekka Franck.

Besides, Ferrari has only twice announced their next year line up in Monza, 2006 and 2009. Why would the team want to announce it in Monza anyways? And for the Ferrari road cars, it gave better media coverage when it was announced in Frankfurt car show.

ellis · PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:26 pm

I don't see Kimi being allowed to choose the date tbh. And why Monza...because it's Monza. Yeah they've 'only' done it twice there but most of the time the drivers were staying static. This is a huge announcement, the biggest since the Schumacher signing. Ferrari is going to field 2 world champions. I struggle to believe Kimi was given control over that announcement (or that he cares enough when it's announced) and that they wouldn't try it during the biggest race of the year for Ferrari.

Entire thing looks rushed, which fits with everything Massa has said and done.

micha · PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:38 pm

NVirkkula wrote:

phil1993 wrote:

LucasWheldon wrote:

what's the estimated price of a last year car, with all features, engine, transmission and electronics?

Depends on the budget, but I guess the lowest team budget is £60m (Marussia). Then work out the costs from there.

Customer cars won't work because you end up with an independent team (such as Williams or Sauber) eventually losing out. Three cars would be better, but only if we went down to seven or eight teams.

The only way to allow Customer cars is if they are ineligible for Constructors' points.

Marussia has stated that most of their budget goes for transportation and wages. R&D is merely £2M for them. So there's really not many options to cut the costs than having more European races, rather than going to far east so many times during the season.

You've got a valid point, it might be a better long term solution to allow third car for every team, who feels like running it, than going for customer teams.

However, I don't think customer teams should be outside the constructors points system. Imagine a situation, where BrawnGP kind of domination escalates. Suddenly we'd have One driver going for the win, while three other cars are "blocking" the next three spots. And with BrawnGP's domination, it was fun for a while to see McLaren and Ferrari being the teams that try to catch the new number one. Imagine if Red Bull had Toro Rosso right up there with the prime team. Suddenly Alonso, Hamilton and Räikkönen would be fighting for the 4th to 8th position, while Vettel would be the only driver going for the wins. The championship would be pretty much over after 1/3rd of the season done.

I think there is still a lot to be won by allowing teams to run different liveries and thus sponsors on the cars. Especially the smaller teams could benefit.
You could convince the sponsor of a driver to spend a few millions more and have their driver run in their colors instead of having their sticker small on both cars and adjusted to suit the livery.

Tobias · PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:41 pm

meh, you're all wrong. Apparently, during a party in Helsinki, a very drunk Kimi told someone he would be in red next year.

Mika Kimi · PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:53 pm

Tobias wrote:

meh, you're all wrong. Apparently, during a party in Helsinki, a very drunk Kimi told someone he would be in red next year.

Perhaps this says it all.

RtN · PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:42 pm

Whilst it has quietened down a bit, I shall point out that neither McLaren driver is signed for next year yet. Hulk is supposedly talking to them.

Now then...Button for £20 million or Hulk for £4 million (max)?

NVirkkula · PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:25 pm

Tobias wrote:

meh, you're all wrong. Apparently, during a party in Helsinki, a very drunk Kimi told someone he would be in red next year.

Yes, this was rumoured in mid-August, less than two weeks after Hungarian GP.

Ellis, I don't know what makes you think that this Räikkönen-Ferrari deal was rushed. What I've understood (from Pekka Franck's articles) is that Kimi said to Domenicali in Nürburgring that he's interested to make a comeback if the deal with Red Bull doesn't happen. After that, the deal (or a binder) was signed at the end of July. Money wasn't a problem for either part and Shell announced that they'll be willing to pay Kimi's salary. The negotiation had much more work with small details. Details such as:

- Announcement date is decided by Kimi.
- The announcement must say that the deal is two years and the option for third year should not be mentioned.
- The option for the third year is decided only by Kimi if he wants to use it or not.
- PR stuff was defined on very detailed level, less than before, though.
- Kimi is allowed to do rallying.
- Equality with the team mate.
- Personal apology from Montezemolo to Kimi before signing the final contract.

This was not by any chance a rushed deal, but a very good, time consuming negotiations between Ferrari and Steve Robertson, who during the process kept the focus on "continuing with Lotus" and denied all the talks with Ferrari every single time. Behind the closed doors things were different than what was told to the media.

phil1993 · PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:32 pm

RtN wrote:

Whilst it has quietened down a bit, I shall point out that neither McLaren driver is signed for next year yet. Hulk is supposedly talking to them.

Now then...Button for £20 million or Hulk for £4 million (max)?

Button and McLaren are too chummy in their relationship for it to end at the moment. Equally, getting rid of Perez already would be foolish, especially with a Mexican GP next season.

But seeing as everything gets rumoured it's impossible to rule out!

NVirkkula · PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:47 pm

With McLaren, I wouldn't rule out anything from their line up changes for 2014 or 2015, since Honda is already getting involved. And if any company wants to pick their favorite driver, without sparing the expenses, it's Honda.

RtN · PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:12 pm

Or, if McLaren want someone else...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109944

Fish88 · PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:22 pm

RtN wrote:

Or, if McLaren want someone else...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109944

They should be in F1. But sadly they arent paying for their seat.

TBK-Light.com

2013 Random F1 Discussion

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