TBK-Light.com

Do you truly realise how much you conflict with yourself?

The comment "30+ lap gap in the race where almost literally nothing happens" is a prime example of that. Which sport do you think you are watching? Oh yes, the sport that when there's action, you decry it because of fakeness... DRS, Pirelli tyre wear and so on... Yet the 1998 race you laud so much was utter drivel where just that thing... "30+ lap gap" etc... took place. Perhaps you could enlighten me with all the F1 races we've seen where action has taken place on almost every lap, or perhaps those races where there hasn't been this "30+ lap gap..."? Tell you what, if you want non-stop action perhaps you should just stick to sprint races like in BTCC . No wait, every time there's something going on you jump on Jason Plato and his driving standards

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

As each race passes I just fear and it looks increasingly more likely that the championship will be decided by that ridiculous double points finale, and it will be lauded as a spectacular event and be green stamped to remain in F1s future.

I agree with you there, BUT when Renault were one of the ones that was actually pushing hard to have these new regs its kind of up to them to produce the goods, and they have failed so spectacularly at it. How confident do you think Red Bull would be in that they will fix it next year? Not very by the looks of it.

World Champion 2010

World Champion 2011

World Champion 2012

World Champion 2013

Sure this year isn't great, but to attack someone who has contributed so much to their team in the like the way they do is kinda revolting. That's why I will never become a fan of the team Red Bull. Stuck-up fucktards who think the world revolves around them. Look how far Renault came already compared to the beginning of the year, maybe next year it is different again. It's Formula 1 one time you are better and the other time you aren't, success isn't a given (otherwise Ferrari would have been gone a long time ago)...

I agree with that. Red Bull owes a big thanks to Renault for the past championships that have been won. You are a partner in good times, and in bad times.

at least the are 2nd team regarding wins...

Further to that, in those 4 championships the Renault was never considered to be the best overall engine.

Red Bull...owe Renault? Renault engines have not finished in the top 3 in the teams championship since 2007 except for Red Bull.

Renaults job is to supply the best engines possible. The current engine is utter garbage. Doesn't sound like Renault are holding up their end of this deal.

It was in terms of fuel economy.

But seriously after all those negative opinions about the engine you would really think an other manufacturer would be willing to supply them? It looks to me they have no other good options, except making their own engine...

Honda will supply exclusively to McLaren.

At least for 2015, don't know if this is the case for the long term.

Well Honda are just getting back in, don't want to overstretch just yet.

Or put up with bitching from RB >.<

Engineering subcontracting is not only about telling a company "give me best engine!!!" and expect a ready-to-go beast to put in your car. There's a whole specification and interface job to be done, which is thoroughly and actively led and controlled by the client. The reality is we don't know if that was correctly performed from RedBull's end. You won't hear about it in public because the client is always right.

Don't take me wrong: I'm not saying that RedBull is responsible. But precisely because as a client, you are contractually responsible of what your suppliers deliver, you don't go and diss them publicly unless negligence is proven from their side. Otherwise, it's just whining and an admission of weakness.

Red Bull have always been quick to criticize Renault through the past years despite having the team having the overall package. Yes Red Bull are paying for what they should expect as the best engine Renault can make (cliche really, as every team expects their manufacturer to build them the best engine) but despite the garbage sitting in the back of the car, they are still the second best team in the championship and are the only non-Mercedes team to win a race.

Red Bull's attitude is incredibly poor considering they themselves contributed to the original Renault issues. Consider also that the 2014 car is also a pile of garbage compared to other teams. Isn't Red Bull's design squad supposed to build the best car, so to overcome the short falls of the engine and other elements of the overall package?

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

Yeaa, how many of the problems can be attributed to the fact Newey designs the car then they pretty much have to shoehorn everything in to fit. Remember all the KERS issues RB always had?

Considering where Renault were in testing, they made quite large strides.

Totally agree Gaara, that was my point entirely. It's all too easy to moan about Renault but I don't see anyone else having the problems RBR are having. Either that's because those teams are keeping somewhat silent or aren't pushing the envelope in terms of performance for the sake of reliability.

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

Developing an engine compared to Mercedes would cost them something around 200 million dollar (or Euro). Even Renault had invested something like that in the current engine. Doesn't sound very viable for a company like Red Bull (Marketing vs. Costs). Honda might be a good option, but they are less proven than Renault so that would be a massive gamble.

I hope Red Bull do attempt to develop their own power unit and good luck to them. And I also hope that when they fall flat on their face and go crawling back to Renault, or Ferrari (both previous engine providers who they've openly criticized during their supply relationship) they show a little more humility.

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

Hope they do it to prove they aren't 'just a drinks company' would be pretty awesome. But yeah seeing them fail hard in the first year would also be pretty funny to watch. Until now the have always had the opportunity to blame it on someone else.

Hope these critics somehow move Renault to buy back their old team and put their image back in their own hands.

That too. I think the last time a non-engine manufacturer attempted to develop their own engine was probably Arrows in 1998 (Mechachrome not considered), but even Walkinshaw later admitted that it was a lot harder than he expected. It's probably not the best comparison as Arrows didn't have the same level of funding available that I'm sure Red Bull do.

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

What exactly have Renault done in the past few years to deserve respect as an engine supplier? Their engines have consistently produced the least power the past 4 years, but Red Bull have managed to work past that with a great chassis and aerodynamics. It's just that this year's block is such a POS that no level of great chassis design could make it a consistent frontrunner, despite the fact that the RB10 is apparently still very good through the twisty stuff.

This year's Renault is both the slowest and least reliable of F1 engines, which is quite a feat. And no other team has gotten anywhere near the lead in a Renault engine this year, which sorta wets the theory that Red Bull just haven't packaged it right. After such a poor showing at their home GP (where they were the only Renault team to score a point) Red Bull have every reason to complain.

_________________

Well I don't think they were that bad. Their engines where the most fuel efficient, so the Renault teams didn't have to put as much fuel in the engine as other manufactures which was a huge advantage after the refueling ban (which happened in 2010...).

They gave Lotus and Williams victory's. If you see that Lotus is nowadays nowhere to be seen, shows how big a factor the engines played in that success. It's like people are downplaying Renault's contribution during the successful years and are exaggerating their role in the lesser period's.