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Machi
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:54 pm 
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Tobias wrote:
in my 'steps of comparison, yes'

Step 1: Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel

Step 2: Raikkonen

Step 3: Webber, Button

Step 4: Massa

Then how come Button was much closer to Hamilton in '10-'12, than Webber has been to Vettel?
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kals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:07 pm 
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Was he?

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BrainPain
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:19 pm 
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During 2010-2012, Vettel outscored Webber with 240 points. During the same period, Button outscored Hamilton by 15 points. So yeah, he was.

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Ian-S
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:26 pm 
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Gaara wrote:
Nope.

Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, Raikkonen

Button

Webber

.

.

.

Massa


Even as a life long Button fan, I have to agree with this.
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kals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:37 pm 
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BrainPain wrote:
During 2010-2012, Vettel outscored Webber with 240 points. During the same period, Button outscored Hamilton by 15 points. So yeah, he was.


Stats can say anything you want them to say.

This :thumbsup:

Scotty wrote:
Button had a very good year (better than his championship year imo) in 2011 when Hamilton had an absolute shocker. Apart from that, Lewis has always had his number.

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BrainPain
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:50 pm 
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kals wrote:
BrainPain wrote:
During 2010-2012, Vettel outscored Webber with 240 points. During the same period, Button outscored Hamilton by 15 points. So yeah, he was.


Stats can say anything you want them to say.


Except that this literally says that Button was closer in the championship than Webber was to their team mates. Which was the statement you questioned.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:50 pm 
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Ian-S wrote:
Gaara wrote:
Nope.

Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, Raikkonen

Button

Webber



Even as a life long Button fan, I have to agree with this.


I too think this is the most accurate. Saying that Button is "way weaker" however, is a very bad way of putting it.
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BrainPain
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:51 pm 
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Scotty wrote:
I agree with this

Tobias wrote:
Step 1: Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel

Step 2: Raikkonen

Step 3: Webber, Button

Step 19: Massa

Yeah, this seems about right.

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kals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:00 pm 
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BrainPain wrote:
kals wrote:
BrainPain wrote:
During 2010-2012, Vettel outscored Webber with 240 points. During the same period, Button outscored Hamilton by 15 points. So yeah, he was.


Stats can say anything you want them to say.


Except that this literally says that Button was closer in the championship than Webber was to their team mates. Which was the statement you questioned.


Oh I know. But looking only at the scores in next to meaningless as it doesn't take into account the variables that went into 2010-2012. In those years Hamilton fought for two titles, Button fought for none (2011 doesn't count as he was merely just better than the people behind him, but wasn't a realistic challenger to Vettel). In 2012 Button was next to nowhere throughout the season and yet still wound up only a handful of points behind Lewis, thanks to his team-mates terrible reliability record. Who would you rather have in your team? Who is the stronger driver in Button and Hamilton?
Scotty wrote:
I agree with this

Tobias wrote:
Step 1: Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel

Step 2: Raikkonen

Step 3: Webber, Button

Step 9: Massa


This seems to be a fairly decent representation.

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BrainPain
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:10 pm 
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Yeah, Hamilton is a better driver than Button, but that wasn't the original statement you questioned. The question I'm trying to settle is whether Button was closer to his team mate than Webber was during the period 2010-2012.

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Gaara
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:10 pm 
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Raikkonen seems to be the Arsenal of F1. Top driver but lacks that little bit compared to the others. Button is the team that bounces in and out of the Premiership, sometimes embarrassing the top teams while Webber is the perennial Championship team that once in a while pops into Premiership only to get relegated after one season.
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Coldtyre
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:29 pm 
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BrainPain wrote:
Scotty wrote:
I agree with this

Tobias wrote:
Step 1: Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel

Step 2: Raikkonen

Step 3: Webber, Button

Step 19: Massa

Yeah, this seems about right.

No it doesn't, where's the "Profit" step?
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phil1993
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:12 pm 
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The strong rumour at Monza was that Ferrari will decide on Wednesday on their 2014 line-up, with it set to be Kimi. This obviously means Massa is out.

If that is the case, Hulkenberg goes to Lotus.

I don't think there's a strong case for Alonso leaving Ferrari, especially with Lotus expected to slip back next season.

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RtN
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:28 pm 
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phil1993 wrote:
I don't think there's a strong case for Alonso leaving Ferrari


I can form a watertight case in just one sentence.

Quote:
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LucasWheldon
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:31 pm 
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Gaara wrote:
Raikkonen seems to be the Arsenal of F1. Top driver but lacks that little bit compared to the others. Button is the team that bounces in and out of the Premiership, sometimes embarrassing the top teams while Webber is the perennial Championship team that once in a while pops into Premiership only to get relegated after one season.


Alonso is like Real Madrid, Vettel is Barcelona, and Massa is QPR

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BrainPain
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:47 pm 
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RTL reports that Kimi has signed for Ferrari according to Finnish media.

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Jonny
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:02 pm 
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According to my sources, Kimi is going to retire, move to Benidorm and open a strip club called 'Big Knockers'. Image
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kals
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:21 pm 
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phil1993 wrote:
I don't think there's a strong case for Alonso leaving Ferrari


Really...?

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StefMeister
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:58 pm 
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Alonso was answering fan questions on Twitter earlier & someone asked him what Ferrari means to him, he replied:
"It's a way of living, my team, my 2nd family, my friends."

He also posted this when asked who he would pick as a team mate:
Image



I get the feeling that a deal between Kimi & Ferrari isn't done yet & that Kimi is still considering staying at Lotus. I also think his decision will be more down to what guarantee's Lotus give him (regarding there funding for the future) than what Ferrari offer him.

I also think Alonso will stay where he is for next year. Massa will be out replaced by Kimi or Hulkenberg.


Last edited by StefMeister on Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Jordi
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:02 pm 
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Employee abuse...? Surely MSC got angry with Ferrari when he wasn't winning titles, yet, as we didn't hear radio chatter, we didn't know...

We criticize them when they don't show emotions, but when they do we criticize them as well...
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