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Farce of the Race - Britain
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Author:  Peter [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - England
When I was watching Maldonado and Perez going down Wellington straight, I was thinking to myself with these 2 drivers this is going to end in tears and they did, but it was no Perez's fault this time. However, I am stuck between voting Maldonado and Grosjean.

On the first lap, Grosjean hit the Paul di Resta from behind, it might well be a racing incident, however, in the post race interview he said Paul hit him. I mean how can you get hit from behind. This is just so classic from Grosjean, again, after saying Schumacher hit him in Malaysia, showing how much he has learned from his experiences after almost half a season.

So amongst all those crash hippies, I vote Grosjean for his hilarious interpretation.
Author:  Gaara [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - England
Before anyone asks, RG57 voted for Webber.
Author:  EAS [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - Britain
Maldonado. Button as an outsider, but I think he doesn't deserve this mention as his race was ruined on Saturday by Glock's spin.
Author:  Fergo [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - Britain
I'd vote the Silverstone organizers if I could but Maldonado gets it, it's amazing how he hasn't picked up a race ban yet.
Author:  Neil [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - Britain
Fergie wrote:
I'd vote the Silverstone organizers if I could


Yeah, damn the BRDC for organising a months worth of rain in a matter of days.
Author:  Fergo [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - Britain
nea wrote:
Fergie wrote:
I'd vote the Silverstone organizers if I could


Yeah, damn the BRDC for organising a months worth of rain in a matter of days.

I take it you didn't attend the race then? It wasn't just the shoddy traffic management (which happens every year), it was the rude and arrogant staff as well.
Author:  ellis [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - Britain
nea wrote:
Fergie wrote:
I'd vote the Silverstone organizers if I could


Yeah, damn the BRDC for organising a months worth of rain in a matter of days.


Well it didn't rain for WEC and we sat in grid lock for an hour whilst Silverstones traffic people herped and derped. And it's not like we didn't know rain was coming.

It rains at Spa every year, and there isn't issues. I've never read of a race where TV crews couldn't make it to the circuit, and a couple of drivers left cars on the motorway and walked to the track.
Author:  kals [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - Britain
Why are you still beating that drum Fergie? Multiple people have pointed out how wrong your perspective is, yet you're still choosing to fight a lone battle. We get that you've been a few times, we get that you dislike heavy traffic, but you're wrong suggesting that the organisation is poor and that traffic issues are terrible every year.

Traffic at major sporting events is always heavy. That is a given. The traffic management at Silverstone for the past 10 or so years has been nothing short of excellent, as many people have already pointed out to you. Even Bernie supported the organisers for what happened at the weekend. Shouldn't that say enough to you?
Author:  Fergo [ Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - Britain
kals wrote:
Why are you still beating that drum Fergie? Multiple people have pointed out how wrong your perspective is, yet you're still choosing to fight a lone battle. We get that you've been a few times, we get that you dislike heavy traffic, but you're wrong suggesting that the organisation is poor and that traffic issues are terrible every year.

Traffic at major sporting events is always heavy. That is a given. The traffic management at Silverstone for the past 10 or so years has been nothing short of excellent, as many people have already pointed out to you. Even Bernie supported the organisers for what happened at the weekend. Shouldn't that say enough to you?

I'm quite entitled to my opinion which is just as valid as yours or anybody elses. Just because you disagree with me doesn't mean i'm 'wrong'. I've seen first hand how bad things are some times and are not worthy of such a huge event. The traffic management is good in some places and piss poor in others. That is what causes alot of the problems. Sometimes they get people out in minutes, other times like ellis said they stand there doing fuck all. And it's not just the traffic, its the rude and incompetent staff who cause a variety of problems every year.
I hardly think Bernie's opinion is a good benchmark to go by either.
Author:  kals [ Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - Britain
The thing is though Fergie, you've clearly got a bee in your bonnet about the traffic situation and have made it clear you believe the Silverstone should lose the GP because you've sat in a few traffic jams and because of a few unhelpful event staff. Those event staff are always told minimal information and given basic instructions to follow. They cannot be expected to know what's going on elsewhere and the rudeness is a norm given they've probably been asked exactly the same question about the traffic by hundreds of people. (I'm not saying their rudeness is right, it's frustrating and incorrect behavior)

There are so many variables the influence the traffic jams that it's silly to just blame organizers. The one thing you can try to influence is the time of your departure and the route you take. Being honest, 1-2 hours to get out of a car park or get onto the M40 from Silverstone during GP weekend sounds about right.

And as for Bernie's comments, they are very relevant and entirely a good benchmark as if you'd think back a few years, he was very vocal against Silverstone, the BRDC and the rest of the organizers. And now, despite the issues he's come out to praise their efforts. That's pretty big.
Author:  cookie [ Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - England
Peter wrote:
When I was watching Maldonado and Perez going down Wellington straight, I was thinking to myself with these 2 drivers this is going to end in tears and they did, but it was no Perez's fault this time. However, I am stuck between voting Maldonado and Grosjean.

On the first lap, Grosjean hit the Paul di Resta from behind, it might well be a racing incident, however, in the post race interview he said Paul hit him. I mean how can you get hit from behind. This is just so classic from Grosjean, again, after saying Schumacher hit him in Malaysia, showing how much he has learned from his experiences after almost half a season.

So amongst all those crash hippies, I vote Grosjean for his hilarious interpretation.


Did you see Grosjeans onboard from the incident? Grosjean was just driving on the outside and Di Resta swerved in front of him. A bit like Vergne/Kovalainen at Valencia. The first races were his own mistake, but now it clearly wasn't.

I vote for Button, so many races in a row sucking now.
Author:  Peter [ Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - England
cookie wrote:
Peter wrote:
When I was watching Maldonado and Perez going down Wellington straight, I was thinking to myself with these 2 drivers this is going to end in tears and they did, but it was no Perez's fault this time. However, I am stuck between voting Maldonado and Grosjean.

On the first lap, Grosjean hit the Paul di Resta from behind, it might well be a racing incident, however, in the post race interview he said Paul hit him. I mean how can you get hit from behind. This is just so classic from Grosjean, again, after saying Schumacher hit him in Malaysia, showing how much he has learned from his experiences after almost half a season.

So amongst all those crash hippies, I vote Grosjean for his hilarious interpretation.


Did you see Grosjeans onboard from the incident? Grosjean was just driving on the outside and Di Resta swerved in front of him. A bit like Vergne/Kovalainen at Valencia. The first races were his own mistake, but now it clearly wasn't.

I vote for Button, so many races in a row sucking now.


Yeah, Grosjean's onboard video shows that on a corner exit Paul naturally went to the outside especially he had another car on his inside at the same time, even given that situation he did leave a car width to Grosjean, I can't really fancy him giving Grosjean any more room. However, Grosjean on the other hand, was nowhere near the track edge.

Therefore, I am not going to change my opinion in saying that, just like my first post, it is a racing incident, adding to that is that this is more of a Grosjean's fault by the way Grosjean reacted when the track was crowded. Furthermore, it is nothing, completely nothing like Vergne/Kovalainen incident at Valencia. It is, however, strikingly similar to the incident when Maldonado took Grosjean off at Melbourne. Showing again how much/how little Grosjean has learned throughout the season.

One of my final points is I stand firm to voting Grosjean as the farce of the race for the reasons listed above and in my first post.

But that's not what I really want to say, what I want to point out is how lowly the driving standard the new generation drivers possess, especially when they so never learned, and this is not the first year that Maldonado, Grosjean drive in F1. I can't imagine how much of a farce F1 would turn into when the current mainstream drivers retire from racing. It won't be long when the winning drivers of F1 are the drivers that survive all the crashes.
Author:  ellis [ Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - England
Peter wrote:
But that's not what I really want to say, what I want to point out is how lowly the driving standard the new generation drivers possess, especially when they so never learned, and this is not the first year that Maldonado, Grosjean drive in F1. I can't imagine how much of a farce F1 would turn into when the current mainstream drivers retire from racing. It won't be long when the winning drivers of F1 are the drivers that survive all the crashes.


I completely disagree with this. Go back 10 or 20 years and driving standards were much much lower than the current drivers.
Author:  Peter [ Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - England
ellis wrote:
Peter wrote:
But that's not what I really want to say, what I want to point out is how lowly the driving standard the new generation drivers possess, especially when they so never learned, and this is not the first year that Maldonado, Grosjean drive in F1. I can't imagine how much of a farce F1 would turn into when the current mainstream drivers retire from racing. It won't be long when the winning drivers of F1 are the drivers that survive all the crashes.


I completely disagree with this. Go back 10 or 20 years and driving standards were much much lower than the current drivers.


I disagree on saying the drivers' ability to race were lower back then in general, let alone much lower. But even if I'd agree, that was not necessarily relevant to my point.

My point was that the current rookie drivers' ability to race are incredibly low, and in such a great percentage in comparison to current veterans. While I'd still enjoy the close racing amongst the currently experienced drivers, I am afraid F1 will go down hill seriously when these current rookie drivers become the future mainstay.
Author:  codename_47 [ Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - Britain
The drivers 10-15 years or so ago had to do a lot less RACING due to refueling and Bridgestone blighting the competitive nature so by proxy they didn't hit each other as much

Someone in a Minardi or a Jordan etc back then probably did one overtaking move every 2 races or so in comparison with someone in a Torro Rosso etc who might be making 10 a race these days.

And yeah, when you increase the ratio like that, you also increase the likelihood of getting into accidents, but its not really about driving standards being worse, far from it, it just the statistics of as the number of overtaking possibilities per race rises, so does the number of accidents.

I know which I'd rather see.....
Author:  kals [ Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - Britain
Perhaps you should look at some of the rookies in just the past 10 or so years and remind yourself of the mistakes they made in their first 1 or 2 seasons. Then remind yourself these guys are now the front runners and some are world champions.

- Massa was lively in his first season with Sauber
- Button had moments of sheer idiocy in 2000 and 2001
- Hamilton well, we know what happened throughout 2007 and 2008
- Vettel struggled to complete one lap of most of the first half dozen races in 2008 and took some drivers off with him

Your point is entirely redundant because rookies make mistakes. They need a few seasons to polish off their rough edges. Back in 2001 no-one thought Massa would ever amount to much in F1. And yet he's gone on to win multiple GPs and fight for a title.
Author:  codename_47 [ Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - Britain
You're getting very aggressive on here recently Kals, always trying to knock people's arguments down individually like it's some form of boxing match instead of joining in with the bigger debate as a whole.

Anyway, the point I was making was statistically, other posters were saying the driving standards being worse now than they were 10 years or so ago and I was saying that as there is a higher amount of racing going on there will be a higher amount of contact and mistakes too as a consequence.

Rookies indeed make mistakes whatever the era, but this era gives them a hell of a lot more opportunities to than most that have immediately preceded it.
Author:  Peter [ Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - Britain
I don't want to elaborate too much on my point, I said in my post, "in great percentage". It's not "some", it is "most" in comparison to "some" a few years back.

I think codename had made a good point for discussion. More passings lead to more mistakes. But that doesn't help the fact that most new drivers are making stupid mistakes one after another in just about every race. 10 yrs ago we could laugh at individuals, but now it's more than half of them.
Author:  kals [ Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - Britain
lol codename. I was responding to peter, you must have posted as I was writing my answer. No boxing match. No aggression.
Author:  codename_47 [ Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Farce of the Race - Britain
Ugh I knew I would get thrown by a post without quoting, I'm a simple poster who needs signposting who is being replied to. :p

Always had bad timing, me, Always! :lol:
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