2014 Random F1 Discussion

codename_47 · PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:51 pm

James B wrote:

F1 has gone as far as it can go - the restrictions it has put on itself by saying what F1 can and cannot be mean it's in a position that can't be resolved without destroying itself. Instead of thinking up more ham-fisted ways of trying to fix it, those running it should take their money and can the whole thing, leaving something more interesting to fill the void. They won't, because those running it will think they can save it. Bernie's demise, be it in a coffin or a police van, will be huge - he is the one unifying force left

OK.

What's next though?
Formula E? WEC?

RtN · PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:57 pm

4 more weeks of this shit. Jesus Christ...

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:01 pm

at least I don't have to wake up early on weekends until the end of august

vacations at least :yes:

James B · PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:09 pm

phil1993 wrote:

But then you have the situation this year where Formula 1 is perhaps more road relevant than it has been for years. So there's a trade-off.

Yeah but is it F1? Is F1 meant to be road-relevant? I've argued in the past that it should be but maybe that's beside the point. F1 from the beginning was meant to be a prototype series for manufacturers and constructors the opportunity to show off what they can create off a relatively blank canvas. F1 cars were meant to be the pinnacle of car engineering. The problems today are:

1) it isn't a blank canvas any more because of the huge number of restrictions designed to curb the speed of the cars; there is a natural limit on the speed the human body can withstand in a racing car and it was reached some time ago

2) an F1 car itself is a brand and they have to stick to that shape for the purposes of selling lots of crap with F1 cars on them

3) manufacturers can't be seen to be spending a gazillion dollars on a meaningless prototype any more; they prove very little by doing this because the world has changed

4) the interest in the drivers today far exceeds the interest in the manufacturers and F1 is marketed as a drivers' championship, even if it's misleading, because people relate to people far more than huge faceless corporations

5) the design of extremely fast cars just happens to making the sort of entertaining racing people want to see very unlikely

In that sense, particularly point #1, Formula 1 was doomed from the start - it was always going to have a limited lifespan because it was eventually going to hit a wall. I'm sure those who created the formula didn't see it as turning into what it is today - it was probably meant as a temporary thing. You only have to look at the lifespans of other formulae to see how long it ought to have lasted - Super Touring rules lasted about a decade; World Rally Cars lasted just over that; Super 2000 lasted just under that

Add in that the basic culture of the whole sport and attitudes towards women or anyone who doesn't have enormous amounts of money haven't moved on since the 1950s and you have something that should have been replaced a long time ago and is only being sustained for the sake of making vast amounts of money. It just doesn't fit the modern world. The whole thing should be just trashed and completely rebuilt from the ground up, junior formulae included. It won't happen, because of the vested interests everyone within the sport has, but there are a lot of sacred cows out there that need slaughtering

kals · PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:17 pm

RtN wrote:

4 more weeks of this shit. Jesus Christ...

I can't quite take your post seriously considering your avatar...

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:21 pm

IMO F1 never was that road relevant it meant to be, their improvements to road cars are almost all applied to exotics and hypercars that costs almost the same as a F1 car

Justin Time · PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:23 pm

Beautiful, let's have some fun.

dicksplaash wrote:

Justin Time wrote:

So you're saying that modeling is not an honorable profession? I don't think any of them were forced to do it. Look at them. These are beautiful women, having the time of their life. Everything's exciting, millions of people are going to see them on telly, they are proud as hell. So if you are offended and automatically assume that she is just decoration, then I guess the problem is you and how you perceive things. But then again, it's a society issue, where women are over glorified and there now is sexism against men - for instance law binding women quota in management, etc.

I think you are the problem. You are obviously okay that human beings are offered as prizes. You are obviously okay with the fact that some people are solely judged by how they look and how "sexy" they can be in front of mostly male audience. You obviously have no problem with the fact that 50% of the world's population are being discriminated/refused opportunities in the working market to the extent that gender quotas has been deemed necessary.

Of course I'm the problem. So are you, and so is the grid girl.

Nah, in all seriousness: How come you say they are the prizes? Do the drivers get to keep them afterwards? The way I see it they pay the drivers respect, they liven up the event. I don't buy into the discrimination argument since I actually bothered to read the studies about equality, equal pay and so on because it's an interesting topic which is instrumentalized by politicians and media to get attention. If you dig deep, the difference in pay for instance is pretty much inexistent. The difference in pay results in numerous factors, which all get neglected in the debate. For instance, women usually tend to study humanities, whereas men tend to study economics, technical and technological areas. Take a guess which one is better paid (regardless if you have a penis or not). Exactly. Furthermore women do get pregnant. They have to take a timeout, some quit their job, have to get a new one. Entering the job market after you took some time off (regardless if you have a penis or not) can be really difficult, thus also creating a discrepancy. The facts go on and on and on. Just everyone wants to neglect them because it's fashionable and political correct to back women in their position in the society.

dicksplaash wrote:

Justin Time wrote:

I guess there is a difference between automatically degrading them by assuming they are decoration and admiring their beauty and how they manage to lighten up the event and letting them have the joy of the event. I'm grateful they exist. When I'm going to have a daughter I will be extremely proud of her, regardless if she's a racing driver or a model.

You obviously think that looks are just as important/legit as qualification for work, as ambition, as intelligence, as personal achievement. What does looks do for sporting achievement?

Glad you brought that up. I'm a director and I take photographs in my spare time, therefore I have met countless actresses and models. You know what the successful ones have in common? They are ambitious, they work their asses off, they have to be intelligent, have great social skills, practice sports. I think you don't realize how condescending you are right now, by saying that the grid girls lack these character traits just because they are beautiful.

dicksplaash wrote:

Justin Time wrote:

Good lord how I hate this brainless political correctness, taking the fun out of everything and making it dreary, inhumane. I've just seen a woman who races motorbikes and has a man as grid boy. Get over it, see the fun and humor in it, enjoy it. But I guess some people just like being offended.

Is it fun that models have to stand in the mud at a rainy motocross event in a short skirt?
What do you think the little girl who her father (I'm being realistic, see?) has brought along when she's that most of the women that works there are only for decoration? Meanwhile, for her brother, the sky is the limit.

I firmly believe you're talking nonsense here. A woman can achieve anything she wants. Look at Susie, look at great managers, directors, great teachers, mothers. I just don't think that many girls are interested in motor racing. Now go ahead, follow me to the next answer.

dicksplaash wrote:

Why do you think I'm a racing nut while my sister couldn't give two shits about any form of motorsports. When we were the age 0-10 we were brought to the same amount of races. How could we have ended up so different?

Because statistically, women (girls) are interested in areas that have a social background, whereas men (boys) tend to be interested in technology and competing. This is hardwired by the evolution. (Statistically) Women are so much better at judging social situations then men are, whereas for instance men have a better 3-dimensional perception. No don't go apeshit on me, this is simple science and statistics. This is also the reason why I don't think, that we will all of a sudden be floated with female drivers. Of course there will be some, and great ones too, but it's just a huge gap they are trying to overcome. Although I wish there would be more female drivers (with grid boys). And I'm a huge supporter of Susie.

God this is fun, thanks for bringing up the topic

RtN · PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:31 pm

kals wrote:

RtN wrote:

4 more weeks of this shit. Jesus Christ...

I can't quite take your post seriously considering your avatar...

Not sure he's going to have much to do with F1 for much longer.

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:31 pm

Justin Time wrote:

Do the drivers get to keep them afterwards?

the last girl Senna dated in his life worked as grid girl in 1993 brazilian gp

Justin Time · PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:49 pm

LucasWheldon wrote:

Justin Time wrote:

Do the drivers get to keep them afterwards?

the last girl Senna dated in his life worked as grid girl in 1993 brazilian gp

Seriously? I didn't know that

I've read plenty of books about the past of F1 and how the times were back then, but I never read or heard any stories about that, well, apart from James Hunt.

Cheeveer · PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:03 pm

Justin Time wrote:

Beautiful, let's have some fun.

dicksplaash wrote:

Justin Time wrote:

So you're saying that modeling is not an honorable profession? I don't think any of them were forced to do it. Look at them. These are beautiful women, having the time of their life. Everything's exciting, millions of people are going to see them on telly, they are proud as hell. So if you are offended and automatically assume that she is just decoration, then I guess the problem is you and how you perceive things. But then again, it's a society issue, where women are over glorified and there now is sexism against men - for instance law binding women quota in management, etc.

I think you are the problem. You are obviously okay that human beings are offered as prizes. You are obviously okay with the fact that some people are solely judged by how they look and how "sexy" they can be in front of mostly male audience. You obviously have no problem with the fact that 50% of the world's population are being discriminated/refused opportunities in the working market to the extent that gender quotas has been deemed necessary.

Of course I'm the problem. So are you, and so is the grid girl.

Nah, in all seriousness: How come you say they are the prizes? Do the drivers get to keep them afterwards? The way I see it they pay the drivers respect, they liven up the event. I don't buy into the discrimination argument since I actually bothered to read the studies about equality, equal pay and so on because it's an interesting topic which is instrumentalized by politicians and media to get attention. If you dig deep, the difference in pay for instance is pretty much inexistent. The difference in pay results in numerous factors, which all get neglected in the debate. For instance, women usually tend to study humanities, whereas men tend to study economics, technical and technological areas. Take a guess which one is better paid (regardless if you have a penis or not). Exactly. Furthermore women do get pregnant. They have to take a timeout, some quit their job, have to get a new one. Entering the job market after you took some time off (regardless if you have a penis or not) can be really difficult, thus also creating a discrepancy. The facts go on and on and on. Just everyone wants to neglect them because it's fashionable and political correct to back women in their position in the society.

Classy, being condescending and then turning the oppositions arguments against them is a typical master suppression technique: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_sup ... techniques

Good on you for being a typical sexist cliché.

Anyway, yes, "men and women are now equal in the work place", yadda-yadda. As these studies confirms:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-21698522
It is the babies fault that women earn less, indeed. http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/0 ... -gap-myth/

But this hasn't much to do with motorsports in the end. Nothing at all quite possibly.

Justin Time wrote:

dicksplaash wrote:

Why do you think I'm a racing nut while my sister couldn't give two shits about any form of motorsports. When we were the age 0-10 we were brought to the same amount of races. How could we have ended up so different?

Because statistically, women (girls) are interested in areas that have a social background, whereas men (boys) tend to be interested in technology and competing. This is hardwired by the evolution. (Statistically) Women are so much better at judging social situations then men are, whereas for instance men have a better 3-dimensional perception. No don't go apeshit on me, this is simple science and statistics. This is also the reason why I don't think, that we will all of a sudden be floated with female drivers. Of course there will be some, and great ones too, but it's just a huge gap they are trying to overcome. Although I wish there would be more female drivers (with grid boys). And I'm a huge supporter of Susie.

God this is fun, thanks for bringing up the topic

Nothing is hardwired by evolution. It is a typical social construction. Before the car "liberated" the horse, females on horsebacks were "strange". Until then, the horse had been a tool for the most part, but the car, truck, bus, tractor made the horse outdated as a tool. The horse became something you could love. Men have, for the most part in human history, been those who are seen as rugged and indifferent to emotions. A man who cries has for the most part been seen as weak. Whereas women has raised the family, where love and tenderness are strenghts. These structures have slowly, yet quite surely, been loosened up since the Romantic period, in the early 1800's. Before that, love was nothing to get married about. So if something as radical as the car is invented/takes away the notion of the car as a tool, comes along, there's no hindrance for women to embrace this sport in a much larger scale. In a progressive society, there's no hindrance at all really. Equality is worth striving for, feminism can never go too far. Why can't men and women enjoy the same things? But at the moment, telling 20 models applaud mens achievements doesn't really give the right signal. The trophies and the recognition is the right kind of showing of respect. But it's mostly men that has the honour to present the trophies. The women are there to be submissive and passive.

These pointless gender roles got to go if F1 wants to be really modern. I would love more women to enjoy this sport like I do, but women are not given the signals that they are welcome to take an active part.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:47 pm

Massively Off Topic of the moment I have no idea if this is a famous clip already or not but look at this Junior Fan celebrating Kimi Raikkonen's first pole position:

Ugh YT tag ruins timestamp: From 1:40

noikeee · PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:42 pm

kals wrote:

Why is success ballast the tipping point for you noikeee?

Because it would be the first time F1 would venture into directly punishing success, which to me is against the very definition of what a sport is.

Gimmicks like have been introduced earlier, whilst annoying, don't punish success, they just change the goalposts of what they should aim at for maximizing performance. For example, high degradation tyres rewarded teams and drivers who could save tyres. Qualifying with race fuel rewarded teams and drivers who could maximize different strategies throughout a full race weekend. Etc. Even DRS - which I support - is far from a handicap mechanism like some people misguidedly think, it actually facilitates the race to the quicker, higher performance car/driver versus a slower car/driver.

By contrast, success ballast directly rewards who's shit. Sure if you've got a super dominant car it might only cut your dominance in half, but it still goes directly against competition, and will artificially inflate the results of mediocre performers.

F1 has been for ages a balance between "sport" and "entertainment". Whilst harder and harder to notice it, it's still fundamentally some sort of a sport. But to me, a rule like this would cross the line and finally make it more entertainment than sport.

kals · PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:46 am

codename_47 wrote:

Massively Off Topic of the moment I have no idea if this is a famous clip already or not but look at this Junior Fan celebrating Kimi Raikkonen's first pole position:

Ugh YT tag ruins timestamp: From 1:40

That lap was illegal, Kimi put all four wheels off the circuit exiting the final corner

StanV · PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:53 am

Man, good old young Kimi.

Jason · PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:35 am

Don't trust females, not even your mother.

(Skip to 8:45)

[youtube]NwuVVG9Qv5Y#t=525[/youtube]

Scandalous :lol:

codename_47 · PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:12 am

StanV wrote:

Man, good old young Kimi.

And his excited Finnish fan Nico Rosberg cheering on his countryman

No-one spot that?

mclaren2008 · PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:11 am

Work is already underway in Mexico City, to rebuild the pit lane.

micha · PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:33 am

James B wrote:

Bernie's demise, be it in a coffin or a police van, will be huge - he is the one unifying force left

Or is he the ballast that keeps F1 down and in the last century?

Bernie's demise can go both ways IMHO. Either you are right and it marks the end of F1 or it catapults F1 back to the front with a modern strong individual or team of promoters.

ellis · PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:37 am

micha wrote:

James B wrote:

Bernie's demise, be it in a coffin or a police van, will be huge - he is the one unifying force left

Or is he the ballast that keeps F1 down and in the last century?

Bernie's demise can go both ways IMHO. Either you are right and it marks the end of F1 or it catapults F1 back to the front with a modern strong individual or team of promoters.

F1 is in the last century? Is that based on anything, or made up to justify the Bernie hatred?

Lot of arse, frankly. When Bernie is gone, watch Silverstone and Spa be dropped for 3 more races in Abu Dhabi.

TBK-Light.com

2014 Random F1 Discussion

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