TBK-Light.com :: 2014 Random F1 Discussion

Having a Red Bull or Mercedes with 20kgs more than a Force India or Williams could make for some interesting outcomes.

How ridiculously stupid is this idea? Good engineering is punished. What's the point in spending all the millions on r&d then?

I'll take success ballast in F1 over double points any day. Having a Red Bull or Mercedes with 20kgs more than a Force India or Williams could make for some interesting outcomes.

De Cesaris fan wrote:

I understand Christian's answer, but I don't think any journalist is going to get an honest answer out of Bernie or Todt. Horner is still one of the faces of F1, and it would be good to hear the honest answer from any of the bosses or drivers.

I also see his points, but when it is becoming increasingly easier to see the FIA and Bernies blatant hypocrisy, expect any good journalist to call that shit out. Especially journalists who are passionate about what they cover.

Ok, Spa is next...
What do you think will it go flat trough eau rouge in dry conditions?

Why is success ballast the tipping point for you noikeee? It has been discussed time and time again that the sport is fundamentally broken and needs to be rebuilt from ground up. The reason why some competitors have got so far out in front that others cannot catch them includes:

- Revenue generated by television audiences and advertisers not being reinvested in the sport
- TV revenue and prize money being divided up unequally across all competitors - 60% being given to 60% of the teams (i.e. very top teams)
- Rules only suggested, discussed and agreed by very top teams, with no input from the rest
- Absolutely no migration path from junior formulae into F1

And I'm not getting into the individual rules that have been added over the past 5+ years which are there to spice up the "show" (high-deg Pirellis, DRS, KERS now ERS, double-points, etc...).

I think we all agree that 2014 has served us some of the best racing for years, and that's even after all the noise about the lack of noise, "taxi-cab" racing and such like. The objective the FIA seems to have is to more people (sorry, I mean 'casuals') watching on TV and to attend in person. The issue to me is that FOM, Bernie and few other high profilers are working on a separate agenda which has nothing to do with the best interest of the sport, the race promoters and the fans. That agenda is seemingly working well and I'm sure Bernie will regain majority control of F1 from CVC any time soon. But for the time being and while this agenda is on going, the sport will have to use these knee-jerk reaction rules to maintain the interest of the casuals.

alex1369 wrote:

Ok, Spa is next...
What do you think will it go flat trough eau rouge in dry conditions?

Qualifying easily. With full tank in the beginning of the race, not sure.

Kals is right. One of the worst aspects of 2014 has been the promotion of the new regulations, which was pretty much just left to the media. Ditto with the actual promotion of the sport.

phil1993 wrote:

Kals is right. One of the worst aspects of 2014 has been the promotion of the new regulations, which was pretty much just left to the media. Ditto with the actual promotion of the sport.

would you promote these noses if you where responsible for these rules?

If Flav is involved, we'll probably have GP2 style Feature/Sprint races with reverse grids within five years.

Author:	kals [ Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
I'll take success ballast in F1 over double points any day. Having a Red Bull or Mercedes with 20kgs more than a Force India or Williams could make for some interesting outcomes.

Author:	LucasWheldon [ Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
indeed, but maybe the teams could force drivers to get even more underweight

Author:	Justin Time [ Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
How ridiculously stupid is this idea? Good engineering is punished. What's the point in spending all the millions on r&d then? I was relieved when I heard that they want to involve Flavio, since he was always on the right track with his comments about Formula 1 in general. And don't forget, "the show" does not just mean the race itself. It also includes everything around it, like the internet, accessibility for more data, maybe pit radio, etc. So if someone (I'm putting my hopes on Flavio) shows them a decent direction, then we might actually get something good out of it.

Author:	StefMeister [ Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
kals wrote: Having a Red Bull or Mercedes with 20kgs more than a Force India or Williams could make for some interesting outcomes. But why should success be punished? A team & its drivers should not be 'gifted' the opportunity to move forwards just because in the previous race/s they didn't get the results. And a team & its drivers do not deserve to be punished, Just because they happened to build a better car And/Or its drivers happened to do a better job.

Author:	kals [ Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
Why should success be punished? It shouldn't. However, when a lot of the success is gained by unfair advantages and through the irregular payment structure then ballast could help even then playing field.

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Author:	ChiliFan [ Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
Justin Time wrote: How ridiculously stupid is this idea? Good engineering is punished. What's the point in spending all the millions on r&d then? Finally! A way to make F1 cheaper!

Author:	webbsy [ Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
kals wrote: I'll take success ballast in F1 over double points any day. Having a Red Bull or Mercedes with 20kgs more than a Force India or Williams could make for some interesting outcomes. I'll take neither of these any day of the week. If its equality that is sought, make it a god damn spec series.

Author:	Philthy82 [ Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
webbsy wrote: De Cesaris fan wrote: I understand Christian's answer, but I don't think any journalist is going to get an honest answer out of Bernie or Todt. Horner is still one of the faces of F1, and it would be good to hear the honest answer from any of the bosses or drivers. I also see his points, but when it is becoming increasingly easier to see the FIA and Bernies blatant hypocrisy, expect any good journalist to call that shit out. Especially journalists who are passionate about what they cover. Yeah, but another good point Christian makes is these journalists will most likely all be at the Russian and European GPs they criticise F1 and the teams for going to. Their excuse is likely that's what their bosses tell them to do, but that's not good enough an answer for the teams to give?

Author:	micha [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
Well, hopefully they'll remember his words and stay away. But we all know that wont happen.

Author:	noikeee [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
The minute success ballast is in, I'm done with F1. It's the reason I don't watch touring cars, or GT racing with their BoP bullshit. Why don't successfull football teams start a goal down or with a man less? Why don't they hand Usain Bolt a bunch of weights to run with in the 100 metres run? Because it's a fucking sport and the sole goal of it is to try to be better than the opponents, not to promote "equality".

Author:	kals [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
Why is success ballast the tipping point for you noikeee? It has been discussed time and time again that the sport is fundamentally broken and needs to be rebuilt from ground up. The reason why some competitors have got so far out in front that others cannot catch them includes: - Revenue generated by television audiences and advertisers not being reinvested in the sport - TV revenue and prize money being divided up unequally across all competitors - 60% being given to 60% of the teams (i.e. very top teams) - Rules only suggested, discussed and agreed by very top teams, with no input from the rest - Absolutely no migration path from junior formulae into F1 And I'm not getting into the individual rules that have been added over the past 5+ years which are there to spice up the "show" (high-deg Pirellis, DRS, KERS now ERS, double-points, etc...). I think we all agree that 2014 has served us some of the best racing for years, and that's even after all the noise about the lack of noise, "taxi-cab" racing and such like. The objective the FIA seems to have is to more people (sorry, I mean 'casuals') watching on TV and to attend in person. The issue to me is that FOM, Bernie and few other high profilers are working on a separate agenda which has nothing to do with the best interest of the sport, the race promoters and the fans. That agenda is seemingly working well and I'm sure Bernie will regain majority control of F1 from CVC any time soon. But for the time being and while this agenda is on going, the sport will have to use these knee-jerk reaction rules to maintain the interest of the casuals.

Author:	alex1369 [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
Ok, Spa is next... What do you think will it go flat trough eau rouge in dry conditions?

Author:	Fish88 [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
alex1369 wrote: Ok, Spa is next... What do you think will it go flat trough eau rouge in dry conditions? Qualifying easily. With full tank in the beginning of the race, not sure.

Author:	micha [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
kals wrote: Why is success ballast the tipping point for you noikeee? It has been discussed time and time again that the sport is fundamentally broken and needs to be rebuilt from ground up. The reason why some competitors have got so far out in front that others cannot catch them includes: - Revenue generated by television audiences and advertisers not being reinvested in the sport - TV revenue and prize money being divided up unequally across all competitors - 60% being given to 60% of the teams (i.e. very top teams) - Rules only suggested, discussed and agreed by very top teams, with no input from the rest - Absolutely no migration path from junior formulae into F1 And I'm not getting into the individual rules that have been added over the past 5+ years which are there to spice up the "show" (high-deg Pirellis, DRS, KERS now ERS, double-points, etc...). I think we all agree that 2014 has served us some of the best racing for years, and that's even after all the noise about the lack of noise, "taxi-cab" racing and such like. The objective the FIA seems to have is to more people (sorry, I mean 'casuals') watching on TV and to attend in person. The issue to me is that FOM, Bernie and few other high profilers are working on a separate agenda which has nothing to do with the best interest of the sport, the race promoters and the fans. That agenda is seemingly working well and I'm sure Bernie will regain majority control of F1 from CVC any time soon. But for the time being and while this agenda is on going, the sport will have to use these knee-jerk reaction rules to maintain the interest of the casuals. Some stability in the rules would probably help as well. Now they have to drastically redesign almost every aspect of the car each year. Costs a lot of money and especially the smaller teams almost start at zero again. If one or two teams get it right (Double Diffuser, Mercedes this season) the rest is miles behind and with testing restrictions it's almost impossible the catch up. Ironically, now I mentioned it. Last time the team was dominant was also when they got something very right while the rest didn't.

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Author:	LucasWheldon [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
I'm fed up with the broadcaster that treat f1 audience as the 6 year old kid that is watching his first race

Author:	codename_47 [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
Fish88 wrote: alex1369 wrote: Ok, Spa is next... What do you think will it go flat trough eau rouge in dry conditions? Qualifying easily. With full tank in the beginning of the race, not sure. Ehh they'll try and if they fail they'll run through the tarmac runoff, which Charlie Whiting will say gains no advantage and won't penalise them for.

Author:	phil1993 [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
Kals is right. One of the worst aspects of 2014 has been the promotion of the new regulations, which was pretty much just left to the media. Ditto with the actual promotion of the sport. Then you have the financial problems, CVC etc. Then Horner has the cheek to blame the negativity on the media when his driver called the regulations 'shit' and his best pal Bernie has been knocking the sport at every chance. Incredible.

Author:	micha [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
phil1993 wrote: Kals is right. One of the worst aspects of 2014 has been the promotion of the new regulations, which was pretty much just left to the media. Ditto with the actual promotion of the sport. would you promote these noses if you where responsible for these rules?

Author:	phil1993 [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
micha wrote: phil1993 wrote: Kals is right. One of the worst aspects of 2014 has been the promotion of the new regulations, which was pretty much just left to the media. Ditto with the actual promotion of the sport. would you promote these noses if you where responsible for these rules? Yes. It is your product. You promote it. If you do not, people will go and find other things to do and your product will die. I'm still flabbergasted that in wanting to 'improve the show', they're hiring a sleazy cheater on the verge of drawing his pension. Sure, that'll attract the youngsters. If Flav is involved, we'll probably have GP2 style Feature/Sprint races with reverse grids within five years.

Author:	kals [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
phil1993 wrote: If Flav is involved, we'll probably have GP2 style Feature/Sprint races with reverse grids within five years. With mandatory SC periods to bunch up the field and help previously disadvantaged drivers... Spoiler: