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2014 Random F1 Discussion
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Author:  Schumifan [ Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
3 international drivers (Robb Holland)
Author:  Gaara [ Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
4, Aron Smith is Irish.

Anyone not from the UK is international.





So I guess the Scots will soon count if they vote yes :lol:
Author:  kals [ Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
Thanks, I missed / forgot Holland and forgot I should add Smith. Those two just add to my point.
Author:  Gaara [ Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
Will admit I had to make sure Smith wasn't from Northern Ireland like Turkington.
Author:  StanV [ Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
Tobias wrote:
surely, with all these restrictions, a new formula should be possible which is in fact superior to Formula One?


WEC.
Author:  Cheeveer [ Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
StanV wrote:
Tobias wrote:
surely, with all these restrictions, a new formula should be possible which is in fact superior to Formula One?


WEC.
Author:  kals [ Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
What's so superior about WEC?
Author:  Artur Craft [ Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
the racing is far better
Author:  Fish88 [ Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
Freedom in car design. We now have 3 of the biggest manufactures racing with totally different engines (4 cylinder turbo, V6 Diesel, V8 without turbo) and the difference between the times where still a lot smaller than in F1 nowaday. Also Hybrid technology is completely different (unlike F1 where they have to use a technology by FIA rules). I can see more car manufactures join WEC rather than F1 because of just that. The technology is actually usable on actual cars.

Probably one of the reasons that Adrian Newey was at Silverstone this weekend (next to Marks debut)
Author:  kals [ Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
Fish88 wrote:
Freedom in car design. We now have 3 of the biggest manufactures racing with totally different engines (4 cylinder turbo, V6 Diesel, V8 without turbo) and the difference between the times where still a lot smaller than in F1 nowaday. Also Hybrid technology is completely different (unlike F1 where they have to use a technology by FIA rules). I can see more car manufactures join WEC rather than F1 because of just that. The technology is actually usable on actual cars.

Probably one of the reasons that Adrian Newey was at Silverstone this weekend (next to Marks debut)


Thanks for the explanation. I know Ferrari "suggested" it was looking at building a car for Le Mans, but what other manufacturers are likely to enter?

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the freedom in car design could also be a hindrance. Due to the fact that only a few manufacturers could / would invest in developing a car. It's doubtful any privateer teams could build or run a car, unless they were being subsidized by a manufacturer.
Author:  StanV [ Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
kals wrote:
What's so superior about WEC?


Type of racing (that's a matter of taste, I know):
Multi-class racing provides excitement throughout the race
Long distance racing, can be argued against, but F1 for me is either too long or too short. Not long enough to show actual durability, and not short enough to consider it as a sprint dash based on pure speed.
Close racing despite the long distance, this can't be argued against. 6 hours fly by, and will continue to fly by now Porsche has joined the mix.
It also has an actual double-points-race that is worthy of being called that :p

The entrants:
Currently 3x2 cars completely designed by separate large automobile manufacturers in LMP1, which equals the number that F1 currently has (Ferrari, Mercedes and actually partly McLaren, considering they do not own the engine department). Add to that full season entries by 2 factory cars in LMGTE (Aston Martin, deliberately not counting Porsche Manthey and AF Corse even though they're 80% Porsche and Ferrari respectively).

In terms of privateers, more would be great but (as you pointed out in the post above) it's difficult. Full kudos to Rebellion, that will introduce their brand new R-One in Spa (http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/rebe ... irst-laps/). They've been 'best of the rest' for a few years with a Lola-Toyota, but this newly completely self-designed car has a lot of potential.

Technology-wise:
Currently it's technologically on par if not more advanced because of the radically different styles in design between the top teams (as Fish pointed out above). Merely the diesel vs. petrol battle is fantastic on its own.

Openness towards fans:
Yes, you can't exactly freely walk into Audi's gigantic secured tent behind their pitbox, but the fact that you can actually get to that area is good enough for me. Presence online is far beyond what F1 is doing, even though they hic-upped slightly with their paid official stream this season.

kals wrote:
Thanks for the explanation. I know Ferrari "suggested" it was looking at building a car for Le Mans, but what other manufacturers are likely to enter?


Nissan for next year and possibly Renault/Alpine somewhere around 2016.

-----
Be that as it may, I still enjoy F1, and I like the changes this year (as I have voiced quite a few times already). So I'm by no means an F1-opponent!
Author:  James B [ Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
Not forgetting that Ferrari themselves are rumoured to be interested in building a prototype
Author:  Coldtyre [ Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
Fish88 wrote:
[...] I can see more car manufactures join WEC rather than F1 because of just that. The technology is actually usable on actual cars.[...]

Wouldn't they need to promote it up first? The average joe/car buyer only knows "F1" and "Rally", and slaps it on any racing car depending on wether it's openwheel or not.
Author:  Ian-S [ Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
Promote WEC more than F1? can't see the FIA allowing that...
Author:  phil1993 [ Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
Ian-S wrote:
Promote WEC more than F1? can't see the FIA allowing that...


The FIA promotes F1? That's news to me.
Author:  Ian-S [ Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
You know what I mean... (I didn't say the FIA promoted anything ;) )
Author:  Fish88 [ Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
Maybe the FIA should hold a 1 hour sprint race the, with the best qualifying driver the day before the real endurance race (or after) with the cars (already) developed by the manufacturers for WEC. Maybe that could spark interest. An 1 hour race with 1 mandatory stop for tyres or fuel so they can go 100% during the race.

I can't see endurance racing becoming popular. It's already hard to explain what's exciting about F1 or NASCAR to noobs, with sportscars that is even worse.
Author:  westracing01 [ Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
WEC/Endurance racing is for road relevant technology. F1 isn't nor has it hitstorically ever been, at least not directly. Cutting costs in a sport where budgets range up to half a billion dollars makes about as much sense as trying to stop the wind from blowing. Racing has never been cheap and there's always been a gap between those with the funding and those without. The difference "back in the day" was the rules were open enough to allow for inovation which meant that an underfunded team with some smart guys could, in theory, come up with something clever enough to propel them up the grid. With the rules so tightly controlled and dictated now, the smaller teams have no chance unless they stumble upon a dump truck of money.

The FIA has to stop trying to manage the "show" and let the teams get back to doing what the teams do best, build blindingly fast race cars. F1 is littered with many years of one team domination and a scattered few years of hard nosed battles to the end. They're trying to do what most American series are doing and manage to make every year something amazing, which only goes to cheapen the product and robs the real fans of the very thing that made them fans in the first place.
Author:  kals [ Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
But there in lies the problem.

Firstly, you can build a blindingly fast race car but not spend up to half a billion dollars while doing so. The amount of time, resource and money that is spent on aerodynamics and use of wind tunnels, plus these hugely expensive and complicated simulators is entirely unnecessary. Is that the teams fault? Partly. But mostly it comes from the rules makers who define what can and cannot be developed.

Secondly, yes there has always been the gap from the front end of the grid to the tail end, both in performance and funding. But right now and has been for the past 10'ish years that 50% or more of the grid are struggling financially and in a very significant (and public) way. For example, Lotus finished 4th in the table last season but earned less financial reward for their efforts than McLaren despite scoring more than double. Plus now more than ever the restrictions to enter F1 means than when a team drops out there is not a GP2 / F3000 team waiting in the wings to take that place.
Author:  Artur Craft [ Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 Random F1 Discussion
phil1993 wrote:
Ian-S wrote:
Promote WEC more than F1? can't see the FIA allowing that...


The FIA promotes F1? That's news to me.

FIA is only known and have some relevance in this world because they regulate F1. Otherwise, nobody would give a $hit about them

In USA, F1 is a tiny sport barely known, hence, the FIA is nothing to them. They have their own regulation bodies and institutions.

Fish88 wrote:
I can't see endurance racing becoming popular. It's already hard to explain what's exciting about F1 or NASCAR to noobs, with sportscars that is even worse.

Endurance will never be popular or have any reach barely resembling that of F1.

The "average Joe" is not a hardcore racing enthusiast like the members of this forum and will never put up with hours of a race. Even the broadcasters will never reserve many hours for just one race

Endurance will always be something rather underground and we have to accept it(not saying you doesn't, btw)
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