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| 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread https://tbk-light.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11210 |
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| Author: | peterohanrahanrahan [ Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
JJ wrote: Couldn't care less. I want 26 cars on the grid. Nothing else matters or satisfies me. Was the sport really that great when he had 6 additional cars who couldn't get within 3-5 seconds of the leaders? I agree with you, sport would be great with 26 cars, but not with 20 good cars and 6 shit ones. But at least getting VW Group in is a start. |
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| Author: | micha [ Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
peterohanrahanrahan wrote: JJ wrote: Couldn't care less. I want 26 cars on the grid. Nothing else matters or satisfies me. Was the sport really that great when he had 6 additional cars who couldn't get within 3-5 seconds of the leaders? I agree with you, sport would be great with 26 cars, but not with 20 good cars and 6 shit ones. But at least getting VW Group in is a start. Just watch some older clips of the start. those 6 extra cars dont sound much but it makes the start just look so much bigger. Besides that, 6 more cars means 6 more drivers. Some talent might finally get a chance or another driver might stay around just a bit longer. |
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| Author: | codename_47 [ Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
micha wrote: peterohanrahanrahan wrote: JJ wrote: Couldn't care less. I want 26 cars on the grid. Nothing else matters or satisfies me. Was the sport really that great when he had 6 additional cars who couldn't get within 3-5 seconds of the leaders? I agree with you, sport would be great with 26 cars, but not with 20 good cars and 6 shit ones. But at least getting VW Group in is a start. Just watch some older clips of the start. those 6 extra cars dont sound much but it makes the start just look so much bigger. Besides that, 6 more cars means 6 more drivers. Some talent might finally get a chance or another driver might stay around just a bit longer. 6 more pit crews, mechanics, aerodynamisicsts, strategy people and basically hundreds more jobs for people in F1, oppurtunity for all 6 more chances to bring out the SC/VSC to turn a bad race into a good one, 6 more chances to have an underdog result in a wet/dry race etc (Not even wet, but we still talk about Super Aguri passing a Mclaren at Montreal 2007 to this day!, more cars=more chances for something like that to happen) Even if they just fight each other, better that than not having a fight on track at all..... There's always a front of the grid and the back of the grid, but better there's more cars that make up that front/back than to deny entry on some elitist "ahhh they'll be too slow" b.s. Besides, some of f1's greatest overtakes have come while lapping backmarkers (hello Mika/M.S/Zonta, Mansell/Senna/That other guy, and that random time Lewis was dominating at singapore until the backmarkers started fighting and Max nearly slipped by) so more of them on track means more chances for that to happen I just can't think how there's any downsides compared to all that |
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| Author: | peterohanrahanrahan [ Wed Oct 26, 2022 11:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
Did you not reading the part where I said 26 cars would be great? I'm just saying 20 good cars and 6 really shit poor ones wouldn't really be worth the effort. Very few drivers who ran for those back marker teams ended up having long term careers in F1, I can only think of Ricciardo (Bianchi is a sad could-have-been), and most of the employees and team members who worked for those teams got fucked over hard when they inevitably went belly up. |
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| Author: | codename_47 [ Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
peterohanrahanrahan wrote: Did you not reading the part where I said 26 cars would be great? I'm just saying 20 good cars and 6 really shit poor ones wouldn't really be worth the effort. Very few drivers who ran for those back marker teams ended up having long term careers in F1, I can only think of Ricciardo (Bianchi is a sad could-have-been), and most of the employees and team members who worked for those teams got fucked over hard when they inevitably went belly up. They only went belly up because they were brought in under promise of a cost cap that never materialised. If F1 had stuck to its guns on that, then there's a chance some or even all of them would still be here now Chandok talked about HRT (remember them?) having to run their show car for the first 4 races that was only supposed to be a demonstration car shown off at a hotel for the sponsors, but having an update package from dallara coming for the european season that was over 80 points of downforce increase that would've put them fighting with the last of the non-new teams (Torro Rosso back then I guess?) but because the cost cap was wriggled out of, their backers realised they'd need 5x the amount of money AT LEAST and backed out of the deal, so the team fell out with dallara as a result and never got the upgrade package and was doomed to being the slowest of the slow......and that kinda pace doesn't pick up new sponsors... TL;DR, the cost cap killed them, it wasn't really their fault all the budgets and business plans were centered around something they were promised was 100% going to happen and then didn't Funnily enough, all these teams are only interested now because the cost cap means they might have half a chance without having to spend billions to try and take down Red Bull and the other top teams too tbh, so it was ahead of its time |
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| Author: | peterohanrahanrahan [ Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
...and that's what I meant by saying we can't have 20 good cars and 6 shit cars, their needs to be decent financial support by the FOM to support new teams. Let's just say teams who get fined for over spending, give them points penalties and send their fine money down the grid. |
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| Author: | webbsy [ Thu Oct 27, 2022 3:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
HRT, Virgin and Lotus (Caterham) weren't the top of the pile. They were chosen purely for political reasons. Even at the time when those teams were selected serious questions were raised about them before they even turned a wheel, and as a result we got three woeful teams. I have always felt that those teams were deliberately chosen to fail to try and strengthen the FIA. Prodrive for example would have been a very very good outfit, but they got the shaft because Max Mosley didn't want them to essentially be what HASS is now, as they wanted to align themselves with McLaren. And we all know the hard on of hate that Max had for Ron. Now offer those same three slots for current teams and the level above HRT, Virgin and Lotus wouldn't even be comparable. |
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| Author: | peterohanrahanrahan [ Thu Oct 27, 2022 3:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
Still think the best solution to get more cars on the grid is 3 car teams. Already explained that the big teams develop, test, run and destroy enough components to build 40-50 cars a year anyway. Freight costs wouldn't be that much higher, the only burden would be more employees to run those cars. |
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| Author: | webbsy [ Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
Running the third car for drivers with under two/three years F1 experience would be good. |
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| Author: | micha [ Thu Oct 27, 2022 7:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
In the early 90s we had Mansell qualifying 1 full second clear of his teammate. Senna another full second behind that. New teams wont be winning right off the bat and probably will run well at the back but with the cost cap they should be able to get into the fight. Besides, if 2-3 new teams enter they can at least fight each other at the back. The whole fixation on "oh they'll be miles of pace compared to the rest" is BS. 3 car teams should only be considered when we start losing teams without them being bought or replaced. Imagine the Mercedes era with 3 cars. Or the Ferrari era. Or the likely upcoming RBR era or at least the previous RBR era. Or even without dominance of 1 particular team. Once the top teams will start running a 3rd car it will be lights out for the rest. Ferrari, RBR and Mercedes will hold the first 9 spots under normal circumstances. |
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| Author: | webbsy [ Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
micha wrote: In the early 90s we had Mansell qualifying 1 full second clear of his teammate. Senna another full second behind that. New teams wont be winning right off the bat and probably will run well at the back but with the cost cap they should be able to get into the fight. Besides, if 2-3 new teams enter they can at least fight each other at the back. The whole fixation on "oh they'll be miles of pace compared to the rest" is BS. 3 car teams should only be considered when we start losing teams without them being bought or replaced. Imagine the Mercedes era with 3 cars. Or the Ferrari era. Or the likely upcoming RBR era or at least the previous RBR era. Or even without dominance of 1 particular team. Once the top teams will start running a 3rd car it will be lights out for the rest. Ferrari, RBR and Mercedes will hold the first 9 spots under normal circumstances. Hence why I said they should essentially be for rookies. Create a rookies cup if need be. |
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| Author: | mclaren2008 [ Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
Time to allow customer cars. The "build your own car" philosophy that has underpinned F1 since it started is the problem. |
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| Author: | gkmotorsport [ Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
mclaren2008 wrote: Time to allow customer cars. The "build your own car" philosophy that has underpinned F1 since it started is the problem. That's the problem though, isn't it? Customer cars are as old as the sport itself. They only really stopped being a thing in the early 80s. If the constructors want to moan about it, just make them ineligible for constructors' championship points and give them their own version. |
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| Author: | micha [ Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
webbsy wrote: micha wrote: In the early 90s we had Mansell qualifying 1 full second clear of his teammate. Senna another full second behind that. New teams wont be winning right off the bat and probably will run well at the back but with the cost cap they should be able to get into the fight. Besides, if 2-3 new teams enter they can at least fight each other at the back. The whole fixation on "oh they'll be miles of pace compared to the rest" is BS. 3 car teams should only be considered when we start losing teams without them being bought or replaced. Imagine the Mercedes era with 3 cars. Or the Ferrari era. Or the likely upcoming RBR era or at least the previous RBR era. Or even without dominance of 1 particular team. Once the top teams will start running a 3rd car it will be lights out for the rest. Ferrari, RBR and Mercedes will hold the first 9 spots under normal circumstances. Hence why I said they should essentially be for rookies. Create a rookies cup if need be. Like that would change a whole lot. Mercedes would have run Ocon and Russell and de Vries. All still capable of running up there. |
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| Author: | codename_47 [ Thu Oct 27, 2022 3:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
Imagine Austria 2002 or Multi 21 with 3 cars to play team order game with instead of 2. "Multi 231 Seb, Multi 231" .... 3rd cars would just lead to more boring team order bullshit, and give red bull 6 cars to hold up rival teams with instead of just the 4 they have now |
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| Author: | LucasWheldon [ Thu Oct 27, 2022 3:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
codename_47 wrote: Besides, some of f1's greatest overtakes have come while lapping backmarkers (hello Mika/M.S/Zonta, Mansell/Senna/That other guy, and that random time Lewis was dominating at singapore until the backmarkers started fighting and Max nearly slipped by) so more of them on track means more chances for that to happen ah you mean Truls1 
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| Author: | trout [ Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
if the cost cap holds then none of the teams will be leaving anytime soon. with the cost cap in place and revenue increasing from growing exposure, all of the teams - including the lower ones - are about to become profitable whether they have on track success or not. this is why we have multiple, legit parties interested in starting teams all of a sudden |
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| Author: | Schumifan [ Fri Oct 28, 2022 5:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
Red Bull get a $7 million fine and 10% reduction in wind tunnel and CFD time. |
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| Author: | EsbenT [ Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
Can't wait to hear what Rocket Powered Mohawk will have to say about this. [youtube]https://youtu.be/Yqby2_fGorI[/youtube] [youtube]https://youtu.be/vauejQ992ZA[/youtube] |
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| Author: | Fabs [ Sat Oct 29, 2022 1:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2022 Formula One Random Discussion Thread |
Schumifan wrote: Red Bull get a $7 million fine and 10% reduction in wind tunnel and CFD time. I'm surprised they got more than a fine. Now everyone will ofcourse start discussing if 10 % is enough and some are already complaining it should be more. 10% should still have an effect next year. |
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