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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:51 pm 
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These frontwings... I thought there were rules so that front wings are more or less clean?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:00 pm 
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LucasWheldon wrote:
can't they just set a max points system to front aero to limit winglets and constant development that create front dirty air?

or just 2 adjustable simple blades on each side


this

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or this

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:29 pm 
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LucasWheldon wrote:
can't they just set a max points system to front aero to limit winglets and constant development that create front dirty air?

or just 2 adjustable simple blades on each side



I think the original rule was two main elements on each sides. Then someone remembered 1999 Malaysia and some other stupid stuff and we came from this:
Image

To this:
Image

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Good luck putting that genie back in the bottle.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:51 pm 
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if I was one of the technical stewards I would go through the pits every racing weekend with a grinding machine and wipe away front spoiler winglets claiming to be out of the rules

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:12 pm 
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AIUI the regs have never (recently) defined how many elements the wing must have, presumably to stop arguments about what constitutes an 'element'. The regs usually mandate particular areas ahead of the front wheel centre line, and what they can contain in terms of total surface area.

The teams have worked out that more small elements has a much larger effective surface area than a single large one, but still can be made to meet the maximum allowance.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:02 pm 
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Can't they hire top lawyers or legal people to write clear rules


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:14 pm 
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Easy way to do it is mandate spec. front and rear wings, noses themselves can be free, but the wings themselves are all the same. Might save them a few bob too.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:52 pm 
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Or huge crashes while they get used to the increased closing speed and wider cars.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:54 am 
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Ian-S wrote:
Or huge crashes while they get used to the increased closing speed and wider cars.


Why do I think this is going to be looked back in as spookily predictive the way my pre-indy 2015 airbourne prediction post was. :oops:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:26 am 
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Scotty wrote:
Lot of people are jumping to conclusions here.

Yes cars might be more difficult to follow through corners with the bigger tyres and bigger aero.

But there is a converse to that - DRS will be much, much more effective. I've read 20-30% more effective. They'll start from further back but will have more closing speed.

This will means cars will be able to pass from further back. We'll see more late braking manoeuvres, instead of what we had which was overtakes which were done with still 400m of straight to go.


Awesome, so we'll see less spontaneous 'earned' passes but more predictable push-to-pass. I'm excited.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:14 am 
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NVirkkula wrote:
LucasWheldon wrote:
can't they just set a max points system to front aero to limit winglets and constant development that create front dirty air?

or just 2 adjustable simple blades on each side



I think the original rule was two main elements on each sides. Then someone remembered 1999 Malaysia and some other stupid stuff and we came from this:
Image

To this:
Image


Dear God I had banished that abomination of a Renault from my memory...thanks for bringing it back!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:00 am 
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That Renault was ugly but the two plane front wing was a great idea.

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ptclaus98 wrote:
So I guess you guys are pretty stoked about the tumors, then


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:06 am 
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Scotty wrote:
Lot of people are jumping to conclusions here.

Yes cars might be more difficult to follow through corners with the bigger tyres and bigger aero.

But there is a converse to that - DRS will be much, much more effective. I've read 20-30% more effective. They'll start from further back but will have more closing speed.

This will means cars will be able to pass from further back. We'll see more late braking manoeuvres, instead of what we had which was overtakes which were done with still 400m of straight to go.


I think you're also jumping to conclusions now and doubt that it will deliver as you describe. The rulemakers often had great theories but in the end it always turned out different.

I hope Brawn will push through with banning DRS.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:22 am 
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Meanwhile, our little French man....

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/185 ... d-overhaul

They've got their heads so far up their arses it's unbelievable.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:30 am 
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The last race he saw was probably in 2008


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:20 am 
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Especially that remark about Bernie. Sad lol.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:53 am 
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gkmotorsport wrote:
The teams have worked out that more small elements has a much larger effective surface area than a single large one, but still can be made to meet the maximum allowance.

That's incorrect, actually. The surface area remains the same. The reason they "slice" the front wing flap into multiple elements is because, with the slits created, they can use higher AoAs(which means more downforce) without facing flow separation or detachment from the flap's lower surface, which would stall the wing, basically.

ACO regulates this very well on WEC. Only 1 element is allowed and that is very simple to be defined. You just need to regulate the amount of slits or holes allowed in a particular area.

Anyway, after 2 years without watching F1, I'm finally interested in seeing what this year will bring. Not that I plan to watch races_ with their daft tyres, DRS, and SCs_ but the FPs and QLF might become great again. The wider tyres and greater downforce are awesome, not only they make them look much nicer but they will speed up the cars as they were too slow since 2014, on high speed corners.

But what I really hope, for this year, is that overtaking becomes impossible so that the disgraceful DRS(which should have never been even considered, in the first place) becomes useless and people finally addresses the problem with racing on F1

Mika Kimi wrote:

I hope Brawn will push through with banning DRS.

I like you :yes:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:10 pm 
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Artur Craft wrote:
But what I really hope, for this year, is that overtaking becomes impossible so that the disgraceful DRS(which should have never been even considered, in the first place) becomes useless and people finally addresses the problem with racing on F1


You're making the generous assumption that the FIA is concerned about the spectacle and will take action after a couple boring years. Recent history (1998 - 2008) shows that they're not, or much slower than you (all of us really) would wish.

If anything, DRS was the best answer to at least provide some action to the fans, without hurting too much the sensitivities of the big teams and their precious several-million-dollar investment winglets and fancy aero. I don't agree with this approach, the teams should be spanked into more drastic viewer-friendly technical regulations, but I'm being pessimistic


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:25 pm 
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I hate DRS, but without it, there would be no overtaking at all - outside of the pit stops.

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