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Has anyone said RBR are shit, or is it that they've said RBR aren't as strong as previous years? At the start of 2014 (not 2015) I suggested that RBR's package was a contributing factor to the Renault issues. But anyway, yes Red Bull should stop complaining about Renault. Add cliche here about winning and losing as a team. RBR have had far more power unit failures than any other team, including STR, who lets remember have made lots of positive comments about Renault in 2015 and until Bahrain had outscored the parent team. McLaren has the weakest power unit on the grid, we've not heard one negative peep out of the them.

The issue Red Bull faces is that they have very limited options. Without Renault, what would they use? Ferrari won't want to supply a potentially equally or more competitive team, Mercedes aren't interested and that only leaves Honda...

Before the start of the season Renault and Red Bull agreed with Renault's approach around the use of development tokens, from what I remember the decision was made to focus on 2016. And here we are. This is a partnership and one that has had unrivalled success since 2009. Let that not be forgotten and go unappreciated. What goes up has to come down at some point... Just ask Williams, McLaren, Ferrari and many others...

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

funny that Renault even with one year of development is doing worser than everything

maybr Horner should call Craig Pollock

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Motorsports trend for 2024: climate change ruining races everywhere

The point with renault is that they don't have the speed AND are far from reliable. If they had one of those things, it would at least be something, but the current situation is awful. Red Bull has no realistic alternative options as said before in this topic. Complaining is getting old, yes, but it's not like they can do anything to help if the engine just keeps not doing anything good. Renault needs to decide if they want to continue in F1. I know it's media, but they really don't sound like Honda. Perhaps Renault is not sure and Red Bull knows this and wants to force the issue.

McLaren have 200 million reasons not to say anything bad about Honda.

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Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.

Agreed. And as such, you'd think Red Bull would have a similar mindset considering the investment by Renault and the title sponsor. Right?

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

I don't know exactly what discount the Infiniti sponsorship brings, but I have little doubt that Didi is still paying Renault for engines rather than the other way around. Part of Renault's problem is that they are trying to run their F1 engine department at a profit, so the fees are high and the investment low - too low.

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Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.

Oh yeah, Red Bull are paying Renault but that fee is heavily subsidized as they are the "works" team. But what's the actual charge? No idea. In respect of Infiniti I've seen reports quoting north of $40m per year sponsorship.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

Horner has become very diplomatic recently, on the F1Forum they tried very hard to get him to slag off Renault and no matter how much they pushed he simply wouldn't.

Maybe their backup plan decided not to enter after all?

The thing is that 2014 was a bad year, and they probably had high hopes for 2015. It got way worse this year. So it was a big frustration for Red Bull. As I just read above, they must be starting to reason out again.

A purely hypothetical idea, but what if Red Bull bought out Renault's engine supply, taking ownership of the engine design. Would they be classified as a new manufacturer and therefore be able to redesign the engine anyway they saw fit as long as its submitted before the deadline before the start of the year?

But would they have enough cash from Red Bull? Compared with the actual manufacturers getting money from global car sales?

If you can run 2 F1 teams, at least 4 football clubs, 2 ice hockey clubs and host tons of other sporting events I doubt you really have to worry about the money at Red Bull.

according to wiki their profit in 2006 was 650 million. I think its safe to say its more now.

With a product as addictive as Red Bull, income is never gong to be a problem, for now anyway.

Red Bull has one product which is already perfect, so no investements needed to improve it (they have come with some new flavours though). Just like Cola they only need marketing to keep it in the publics eye.

The many sports they're involved is their marketing.

30 years ago today, Ayrton Senna won his first Grand Prix at Estoril

That race has some crazy marshalling near the first laps (iirc when it was). Some guy spin on the straight entry and there it remains until someone gets them out. No SC or anything.

I wish F1 cars could be a bit heavier like those 80's turbocharged racers

1985 and 1986 were the peak of pure horsepower in F1, when Rosberg set the highest average speed down at Silverstone

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Motorsports trend for 2024: climate change ruining races everywhere

Today's F1 cars are actually around 125 kg heavier than the regulated minimum in 1986.