TBK-Light.com

Renault charge the most money by far for their engines. Mercedes and Ferrari charge about $23 million a year. Renault are north of $30 million. So, naturally, you would expect them to produce the best product.

It's not just that Ferrari and Mercedes have done a better job, it's that Renault have made an engine that is fundamentally broken. As of right now, it cannot be run at more than 75% of its maximum possible power output. If it was just a case of the Renault being slower, that would be understandable. It might even be that the Renault is faster. But no-one's going to know for a while if that's the case because if they tried to go at full power they'd lunch it.

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Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.

If the Martini-Williams deal hasn't been known to everyone for ages, On Pole have released a Williams/Martini shirt
http://www.onpole.com/

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

still, they (whoever that might be) decides to change the engine format dramatically.

Engine makers are busy with this for quite some time.

However, if you have zero possibility to test on track on a real car during this whole process, this is something that can happen. I know they can test engines within the factories, and I am no expert, but I think on track in a car is quite different than testing in the factory. And each car is designed differently as well, which makes it even harder.

it's not because Renault is charging more that it means they are automatically better. It does not work in this world like that. Toyota had the biggest budget of all and the achieved nothing in F1.

Don't forget from the 3 car makers, Renault has been hit the most during the financial and economical crisis, and is still struggling much more financially compared to Mercedes, Ferrari on the other hand is making huge profits these days.

Concidering all of this, I'm amazed that Renault are still in F1 after all...

cool cool cool

These are two different things though.

Toyota chose to spend that much on Formula 1. Renault is the supplier, with their four teams as customers. I agree that spending more isn't necessarily the best barometer of success, but if you're charging that cost onto the customer then they expect better value.

If you go to a shop and buy something more expensive but the quality is worse, your first question should be 'well if they can do a better job at a lower price, why can't you?'

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

Dutch website F1today says this is the livery.

Of course not, and again if it was just that the Renault was a bit slower than the other engines, there would be no major problem. The Red Bull would probably still have grenaded and everyone would be laughing at them.

But for something to go as fundamentally wrong as has done with the Renault is not really acceptable for the money that the teams are having to pay for the service.

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Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.

That's just a concept somebody on the internet made. Don't think it will be that livery.

I just read that Williams just signed a 3 year deal with Petrobras!

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Visit: https://www.motorsport-pictures.com
Follow me on Instagram! http://www.instagram.com/motorsportpictures_official

I'm so going to buy that shirt!

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"Indy doesn't give you a second chance. You have to earn it."

But if someone is using the product incorrectly it will make the problems look far worse than they are. Similar to Pirelli last year.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

Which is why Renault have a half-dozen engineers within each team.

_________________
Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.

Three of the four teams that use the Renault product fundamentally share common technology from a parent (Red Bull). There is an issue with Renault, no-one is denying that. But. Red Bull (and as a by-product of the technology transfer relationships... STR and Caterham) are pushing the envelope of what the engine should be doing. No other team, or engine is being that aggressive. Lotus included.

As was mentioned on the previous page, this isn't the first time Newey has pushed the envelope and got it wrong. It isn't entirely Renault's fault and we shouldn't simply focus on them as the problem.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

I would doubt that either the STR or the Caterham would be as aggressive with the packaging as Newey usually is. Both teams only get the transmission and the gearbox from Red Bull. Packaging and cooling is up to them.

Considering that the 75% power diktat was made by Renault and not something that Caterham came up with themselves, I don't believe packaging is a problem for them.

_________________
Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.

Mark my words: This is the biggest use of sandbagging in the history of the sport. Red Bull, STR, Lotus and Caterham will fill the first 8 positions in Melbourne after qualifying.

That makes no sense to sandbag that much in the first test. Did they just fake the engine trouble sounds? Did they just ran intentionally just a bunch of laps in GP3 speed? I get what you mean, they want to do R&D after the engine freeze, but at the same time they are wasting the time with their "fake-issues" while Ferrari and Mercedes teams are doing race simulations and learning their new tools. I'd rather believe that Renault's problems are exaggerated but after Bahrain they're fixed and we have three nearly equal engine suppliers.

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"Indy doesn't give you a second chance. You have to earn it."

Red Bull got a secret indoor test track IMO. The testing regulations only limits the amount of testing done OUTDOORS.

That's correct. Actually, they know that the car has enough downforce, after they run it ON THE ROOF

The stuff you say actually isn't that unrealistic . Ganassi turned some abandoned tunnel into a testing strip.

[youtubeidiot]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-f_0z3HARI[/youtubeidiot]

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/arti ... urel-hill/

These posts are going to be so fun to look back to when a Renault-powered team leads the constructors championship during the season.

So long as it's Caterham.

_________________
Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.