Bottas pushing Ricciardo's shoe away
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| Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 https://tbk-light.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=10259 |
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| Author: | Gaara [ Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
Bottas pushing Ricciardo's shoe away
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| Author: | LucasWheldon [ Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
that was a good finish, too bad we didn't saw tires torn apart |
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| Author: | webbsy [ Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
How on Earth do the FIA give the same penalty to a guy that took 2 other guys out of the race by clearly ballsing up his breaking to a guy that went passed three blue flags??? Also all this talking about ohh Bottas's reaction was 0.201 seconds....well in my book a jump start is you know, when you go before the lights go out. Screw all this anticipation stuff, because that becomes completely arbitrary...so .001 of a second either way means that that is just a superhuman effort as opposed to jumping the start...which by the way the driver moved AFTER the start? Do the FIA have different timings for the lights other than whole seconds? example one race they go out 0.9 seconds after, the next 0.735 seconds? I know they stagger the times they hold them eg this race they hold them for 4 seconds next 5 etc. Make it completely random. Like hold them for 4.575 seconds. |
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| Author: | LucasWheldon [ Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
about jump start I guess is very clear that after the lights go out anything goes, screw that reaction time if a driver gets lucky for starting right after the lights out so be it |
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| Author: | Bleu [ Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
The decision says Vandoorne ignored blue flags for two laps. |
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| Author: | gkmotorsport [ Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
LucasWheldon wrote: if a driver gets lucky for starting right after the lights out so be it This. It's a HUGE gamble, and the penalty for getting it wrong will ruin your race. I don't think many drivers would actively try and ride their luck. |
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| Author: | siggy [ Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
So even according to the fia Bottas moved before the lights went out. But because it was in a certain marge the fia will not disclose, it doesn't count as a jump start. Okay fine, but how do you time reaction time if it's not from the moment the car starts to move? In the past you would see cars hop when engaging the clutch, first gear, but they always stopped before launching. Bottas did not. Moving before the red light and not stopping is for all intents and purposes a jump start. Anyway, measuring the reaction time from car data on Bottas actions in the car (how else) instead of when the car actually launches. Since the advantage was bloody huge, i hope other teams will try something in the next gps. A recipe for disaster. |
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| Author: | JJ [ Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
It was obviously a jump start, but within rules. Mika Salo was in the stewards and said the car moved 0.003s before lights went off, but due to the 10ms tolerance in the rules it was deemed a legal start (don't know if there is a ±10ms measurement error). So Bottas was very very very very lucky guy. I'm sure he won't try that again in Silverstone. Of course any driver is free to anticipate, but why to take the risk and ruin your race? |
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| Author: | LucasWheldon [ Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
checking video on slowmotion he clearly goes out in a lucky shot, starts moving right after the lights if it was 30 years ago when we didn't had so many sensors and electronics it would be the perfect start |
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| Author: | aerogi [ Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
it was not a jump start. Lights went green and he was gone. That was visually very clear. That is what should count. Not some kind of computer generated reaction time of 0,2 seconds that is supposed to be not human. I would call it a perfect start. Why Stoffel got a drive through and Perez not is a bit of a mystery to me. |
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| Author: | codename_47 [ Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
aerogi wrote: Lights went green  aerogi wrote: That was visually very clear Very visually clear green lights O/T. I kinda miss green lights. Just police them the same way they police the red lights now IE everyone goes when the red goes off, but show the green as well. that's probably just me though 
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| Author: | LucasWheldon [ Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
if traffic lights are out you can drop the hammer |
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| Author: | kals [ Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
Fun fact - Between the end of the 1995 and the beginning 1996 seasons the start procedure was changed from a red / green light to the five red lights and out because drivers were anticipating and going on the red light extinguishing, rather than anticipating the green light displaying. If anyone remembers the 1995 season the FIA introduced sensors on the starting grid to detect jump starts, and almost every race had multiple jump starters receiving 10-second stop / go penalties. The 1996 (and onward) procedure fixed that issue. |
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| Author: | pimmy [ Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
I wouldn't mind seeing a World Rallycross-type procedure. "Ready to race" pops up in red, then goes out, and then the green lights come on after a random delay of a few seconds. It's always seemed strange to me to not start races with a green light. Green means go, right? |
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| Author: | ptclaus98 [ Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
Wow you guys are really over-analyzing the start. He made a one in a million start, end of story. Does it really matter if he was a few thousandths of a second ahead? Well done to Valtteri for a fantastic weekend. |
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| Author: | Philthy82 [ Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
Amazing how some can go from bitching about overreach and overcomplication of the rules to crying for a penalty for starting too quickly after the lights went out almost in the same breath, rather than celebrating what was probably one of the best starts you'll ever witness. |
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| Author: | iks [ Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
Yeah, there was no "jump" there. It's stuff like the FIA's "no human can react faster than x seconds" thing that ruins sports. |
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| Author: | Coldtyre [ Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
I agree that Bottas' start is legal, especially if the sensors didn't pick him up moving before the signal - no evidence to serve as grounds for a harsh race-running penalty. Bottas got lucky with the sensors, had the sensor showed negative time he'd be in the pits crying his eyes out. However, reaction time does matter and has to be taken into account. The human reaction time cannot be less than 100ms for physical reasons. In the 100m sprint, they disqualify you if you react after the gunshot, but by less than 100ms, because it means you cheated and got lucky. What would ruin sports (sprint in this case) is not having this rule, and letting fuckheads playing their luck to go before hearing the gunshot, getting everyone tired and out of concentration for a new start, etc... this is the reason they now disqualify you at first jump start in the 100m, no more warnings or yellow cards, to avoid this kind of playing with luck that annoys everybody including the viewers. It's very easy to not jump a start, no matter the discipline: don't. try. your luck. Look for the lights, relax, and let your body do the thing as a reflex *after* it has seen the signal, simple as that. |
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| Author: | westracing01 [ Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
Boy my eyesight must be garbage because Bottas looked like he made an absolutely perfect start. Throw the sensors in the trash. This is simple. Lights are red and car moves, Jump start. Lights are out and car moves, good to go. By my poor visual acuity, apparently, Bottas' car moved exactly when the light went out. Perfect. Other than that, decent race. Wish Vettel could put the spurs to that Ferrari just a bit sooner. |
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| Author: | gkmotorsport [ Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 Großer Preis von Österreich 2017 |
kals wrote: Fun fact - Between the end of the 1995 and the beginning 1996 seasons the start procedure was changed from a red / green light to the five red lights and out because drivers were anticipating and going on the red light extinguishing, rather than anticipating the green light displaying. If anyone remembers the 1995 season the FIA introduced sensors on the starting grid to detect jump starts, IIRC this was almost directly down to Olivier Panis' youthful exuberance kals wrote: and almost every race had multiple jump starters receiving 10-second stop / go penalties. The 1996 (and onward) procedure fixed that issue. And it's this procedure which the FIA have explained as the reason for him not being penalised. He might well have been close to their 'human reaction' limit, but the tiny amount of leeway allowed for clutch adjustment saved him. |
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