2014 Random F1 Discussion

amq55 · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:26 pm

RtN wrote:

Well, what is official?

The FIA counts it as the official record.

Yeah, but should be set on track in an official session. At least I consider Pizzonia's record to be more official.

Artur Craft · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:39 pm

RtN wrote:

Er, no, it is the fastest lap ever set in a Formula 1 car.

Er, no :rollingeyes:

The fastest lap ever was not that Montoya's lap of 2004. Barrichello's pole was the fastest Monza lap that year, and I guess of all time.

Monza have the highest average speed per lap of all calendar, but even with this fact it is somewhat "vague" to call the fastest lap there as the fastest lap ever.

edit: I don't remember the times from that session so don't know if what Gabriel say is correct. However, a guy in the Montoya video claims a laptime of 1.19.525 and that is likely to be the case going by Joni's video of Sato who lapped 1.19.7

Still, the whole thing is still vague. That would only be the highest average speed ever. Some peope can claim the fastest lap ever was some in Interlagos or Monaco, where the laptimes are lower(IIRC 1.10 in Interlagos and 1.13 in Monaco). That's why I only say fastest lap ever for a circuit and not overall as this is somewhat meaningless

Cheeveer · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:47 pm

Artur Craft wrote:

RtN wrote:

Er, no, it is the fastest lap ever set in a Formula 1 car.

Er, no :rollingeyes:

The fastest lap ever was not that Montoya's lap of 2004. Barrichello's pole was the fastest Monza lap that year, and I guess of all time.

Monza have the highest average speed per lap of all calendar, but even with this fact it is somewhat "vague" to call the fastest lap there as the fastest lap ever.

FFS. READ, then apply common sense.

Gabriel wrote:

2004 was faster than 2002.

Barrichello took pole with a laptime about 0.2 sec faster than Montoya's 2002 pole lap.

But Montoya was faster in the first part of qlf that year, with a lap about half a sec. quicker than the pole. If I remember well, in Qlf part 1 the cars lapped very light on fuel, while on part 2 they had to fuel for the race, Parc Fermé rules and shit.

Fastest lap ever as in highest average speed ever in an official F1 session.

RtN · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:52 pm

Artur Craft wrote:

RtN wrote:

Er, no, it is the fastest lap ever set in a Formula 1 car.

Er, no :rollingeyes:

The fastest lap ever was not that Montoya's lap of 2004. Barrichello's pole was the fastest Monza lap that year, and I guess of all time.

Monza have the highest average speed per lap of all calendar, but even with this fact it is somewhat "vague" to call the fastest lap there as the fastest lap ever.

Montoya's lap was also in qualifying. Any lap set in qualifying or a race is official and eligible for the record.

And pray tell, what lap, official or unofficial, is faster than Montoya's?

Artur Craft · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:10 pm

RtN wrote:

And pray tell, what lap, official or unofficial, is faster than Montoya's?

oh no, no. I believe this Montoya lap(allegedly 1.19.525) is the Monza record, after seeing the Sato one of 1.19.7 on Joni's channel. The thing is that these Q1 times from 2004 are hard to find(for instance, not even in the link alex posted it can be found)

I immediately thought he claimed it as the highest average speed ever, but then I remembered it was Barrichello's pole that year and thought that was the fastest laptime ever at Monza, then I thought he meant highest speed due to it.

ChiliFan · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:14 pm

RtN wrote:

And pray tell, what lap, official or unofficial, is faster than Montoya's?

Jacky Ickx lapped Watkins Glen in 1:02.740 in 1970. That could be considered faster than the 1:19.525 Montoya did, so he's right that it's a fairly vague definition.

RtN · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:16 pm

Thank you for that, ChiliFan.

That's quite interesting, I hadn't heard of that one. I would have assumed it would have been superseded by Rosberg's Silverstone lap.

Mäth · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:16 pm

Actually, neither is an official record. Official track records are from races. For instance, the official track record at Circuit Gilles-Villeneuve is Barrichello's fastest race lap from 2004 (1'13.622) and not Ralf's pole position lap time (1.12.275), although it's clear to us that this is the fastest lap ever recorded on the track

RtN · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:18 pm

I thought the fastest ever lap record took qualifying into account too?

Otherwise, again, Rosberg would not have held the record for nearly 20 years.

Mäth · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:19 pm

Artur Craft wrote:

The thing is that these Q1 times from 2004 are hard to find(for instance, not even in the link alex posted it can be found)

Whaaaaaat ?!?!? http://www.newsonf1.com/2004/races/italy/qres.htm#p1

Mäth · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:21 pm

RtN wrote:

I thought the fastest ever lap record took qualifying into account too?

Otherwise, again, Rosberg would not have held the record for nearly 20 years.

Thought so too, but then again, Rosberg had the record for the fastest average speed on a qualifying lap, didn't he ?

amq55 · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:22 pm

ChiliFan wrote:

RtN wrote:

And pray tell, what lap, official or unofficial, is faster than Montoya's?

Jacky Ickx lapped Watkins Glen in 1:02.740 in 1970. That could be considered faster than the 1:19.525 Montoya did, so he's right that it's a fairly vague definition.

Niki Lauda got pole in the 1974 French GP at Dijon with a 58.790. Isn't that the fastest lap ever?

RtN · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:24 pm

Mäth wrote:

RtN wrote:

I thought the fastest ever lap record took qualifying into account too?

Otherwise, again, Rosberg would not have held the record for nearly 20 years.

Thought so too, but then again, Rosberg had the record for the fastest average speed on a qualifying lap, didn't he ?

I've honestly never heard of any distinction between the two. I have no idea of what the fastest ever race lap is.

Shaddix · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:24 pm

To me the fastest lap is the lap with the highest average speed (on a normal track, not an oval ofcourse).

Cheeveer · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:29 pm

Shaddix wrote:

To me the fastest lap is the lap with the highest average speed (on a normal track, not an oval ofcourse).

Why the distinction between the two? The fastest lap on an oval is also the one with the highest average speed.

Anyway, the fastest lap ever in F1 (Formula 1 car, World Championship official session) is that of Montoya, Q1, at Monza in 2004.

I wonder, if we bend the rules a bit, the fastest ever Grand Prix lap would be from 1937. :ohmy:

ChiliFan · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:32 pm

amq55 wrote:

ChiliFan wrote:

RtN wrote:

And pray tell, what lap, official or unofficial, is faster than Montoya's?

Jacky Ickx lapped Watkins Glen in 1:02.740 in 1970. That could be considered faster than the 1:19.525 Montoya did, so he's right that it's a fairly vague definition.

Niki Lauda got pole in the 1974 French GP at Dijon with a 58.790. Isn't that the fastest lap ever?

Probably, I don't know. The point was to differentiate between fastest as in least time, and fastest as in highest average speed.

Shaddix · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:34 pm

dicksplaash wrote:

Shaddix wrote:

To me the fastest lap is the lap with the highest average speed (on a normal track, not an oval ofcourse).

Why the distinction between the two? The fastest lap on an oval is also the one with the highest average speed.

Anyway, the fastest lap ever in F1 (Formula 1 car, World Championship official session) is that of Montoya, Q1, at Monza in 2004.

I wonder, if we bend the rules a bit, the fastest ever Grand Prix lap would be from 1937. :ohmy:

Average speed because that's how you can compare "fastness" on different tracks. A 1:30 on Spa is much faster than a 1:30 on Monaco.

I exclude ovals because they are not "regular" F1 tracks anymore.

Cheeveer · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:51 pm

Shaddix wrote:

Average speed because that's how you can compare "fastness" on different tracks. A 1:30 on Spa is much faster than a 1:30 on Monaco.

Um, yes... that is called math.

Shaddix wrote:

I exclude ovals because they are not "regular" F1 tracks anymore.

I have no idea what you mean. No lap at Indianapolis 1950-1960 when it was included in the World Driver's Championship, was faster than anything at Monza (when using the 10k layout) during the same era, so you don't need to worry.

My way of thought about the fastest ever Grand Prix lap being set in 1937 goes like this:

Motorsport Magazine made an issue about the 100 Greatest ever Grand Prix' last year. Non of the Indy 500's 1950-1960 were included (if they had been eligible, 1960 at least would have made the top 20), nor was the "Monzanapolis" 500 races in 1957-58. What was included however was the 1937 AVUS-rennen. It didn't run to GP specifications, it was a Formula Libre type race, but in all other aspects it was a GP. It included all major GP (all three, Merc, Auto Union, Alfa). And the fastest lap was at 276kph, by Bernd Rosemeyer. Much faster than Montoya's lap. And AVUS was not an oval, it just happened to have very, very long straights.

Pretty cool I think. Of course, the Monzanapolis races were faster and 276 hasn't been an impressive speed at Indy since the mid-60's, but still.

Fish88 · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:08 pm

Ok does this make it more clearer?

Quote:

he race was perhaps best known for speed records set during the race. In the first part of qualifying (which did not count towards grid positions), Juan Pablo Montoya lapped Monza in his Williams FW26 at an average speed of 262.242 km/h (162.9 mph), the fastest ever qualifying lap in the history of Formula One.

.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Italian_Grand_Prix

His 2002 lap was the fastest ever lap recorded with the new rules since I believe Rosberg at Hockenheim somewhere in the 1980's. I believe Barrichello's lap counts as a record but Juan's lap had the fastest average speed in an official training session. That's why I put the video up.

Cheeveer · PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:24 pm

Rosberg's lap was at Silverstone in 1985.

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