TBK-Light.com :: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA

Hartstein: http://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/2014/1 ... al-injury/

If you want something more positive, apparently this is the same injury Richard Hammond suffered

James B wrote:

Hartstein: http://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/2014/1 ... al-injury/

If you want something more positive, apparently this is the same injury Richard Hammond suffered

Wasn't Hammond awake quite a while after his accident? Bianchi was awake for a brief moment. This type of injuries are always individual, but I sure hope Jules could recover as well as Hammond did.

Man, Hartstein is such a demoralizing guy :-/

James B wrote:

Hartstein: http://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/2014/1 ... al-injury/

If you want something more positive, apparently this is the same injury Richard Hammond suffered

Wasn't Hammond awake quite a while after his accident? Bianchi was awake for a brief moment. This type of injuries are always individual, but I sure hope Jules could recover as well as Hammond did.

but we had to wait someone hurting himself to think it was time to rethink procedures.

http://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/2271/

Dr Hartstein talking about flag discipline, quite damning really. Especially when he mentions drivers in briefings asking how fast they can go under yellows so they don't get a penalty.

For the sake of my sanity, I’ll point out again that double yellows mean that the track might be obstructed, that there are HUMAN BEINGS WORKING trackside of the Armco, and to BE PREPARED TO STOP.

After this accident it's easy to think "what if something happens" during the yellows flags, only forgetting that 99,99 % of the times nothing happens.

Jason wrote:

Amen to that.

Quote:

For the sake of my sanity, I’ll point out again that double yellows mean that the track might be obstructed, that there are HUMAN BEINGS WORKING trackside of the Armco, and to BE PREPARED TO STOP.

Not a lot of room to duck actually. That said, deceleration in the longitudinal axis DOES lead to some “submarining”. There is pretty significant axial loading of the spinal cord in severe decelerations and that may have taken a cm or two off his height.

Author:	phil1993 [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Oh man But, looking at the footage, to get to this stage seems positive.

Author:	gkmotorsport [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Also, based on the fact that it is normally caused by traumatic acceleration (either way), it seems a foregone conclusion that his head contacted the bottom of the vehicle.

Author:	stimaro [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Great to see and read an update! Sadly not so positive. But who knows...

Author:	JJ [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
The injury itself was reported to be severe, but the statement didn't say the diffuse axonal injury was severe. So there may be hope...or not. Just like with Schumi's case, we don't know. No one knows.

Author:	James B [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Hartstein: http://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/2014/1 ... al-injury/ If you want something more positive, apparently this is the same injury Richard Hammond suffered

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Author:	kals [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Thank you James

Author:	Coldtyre [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Man, Hartstein is such a demoralizing guy :-/

Author:	NVirkkula [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
James B wrote: Hartstein: http://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/2014/1 ... al-injury/ If you want something more positive, apparently this is the same injury Richard Hammond suffered Wasn't Hammond awake quite a while after his accident? Bianchi was awake for a brief moment. This type of injuries are always individual, but I sure hope Jules could recover as well as Hammond did.

Author:	LucasWheldon [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
while I was watching the race I was expecting red flag to be dropped at lap 42, so Hamilton could win with full points. if they had done that this thread would be a lot shorter

Author:	James B [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
NVirkkula wrote: James B wrote: Hartstein: http://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/2014/1 ... al-injury/ If you want something more positive, apparently this is the same injury Richard Hammond suffered Wasn't Hammond awake quite a while after his accident? Bianchi was awake for a brief moment. This type of injuries are always individual, but I sure hope Jules could recover as well as Hammond did. Yeah, head injuries are more dictated by severity than type, and we haven't had a breakdown of the nature of it in the same way that the doctors revealed the nature of Schumacher's injuries. We've had very little to go on so far and we've only been given a name of a condition now. It's very difficult to tell. The problem is people will read a Wikipedia entry on the small amount of information they've been given, see some negative outcomes and assume that that's standard, when actually it covers a wide range of outcomes. We just don't know yet

Author:	cambridge [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
summing it up we had this: this ( 2.23) this ( 11.50 ) this but we had to wait someone hurting himself to think it was time to rethink procedures.

Author:	gkmotorsport [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
coldtyre wrote: Man, Hartstein is such a demoralizing guy :-/ I thought that was actually a fairly positive post, compared to some of the ones he did about Schumacher. It's important to remember that a lot of this is his day job, so his experience will probably have an unfortunate correlation with the statistics sourced for the Wikipedia article. He is most definitely a realist.

Author:	gkmotorsport [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
NVirkkula wrote: James B wrote: Hartstein: http://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/2014/1 ... al-injury/ If you want something more positive, apparently this is the same injury Richard Hammond suffered Wasn't Hammond awake quite a while after his accident? Bianchi was awake for a brief moment. This type of injuries are always individual, but I sure hope Jules could recover as well as Hammond did. Yes, as was Schumacher. Unfortunately, I don't think the degree of consciousness immediately after the trauma counts for too much.

Author:	Jason [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
http://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/2271/ Dr Hartstein talking about flag discipline, quite damning really. Especially when he mentions drivers in briefings asking how fast they can go under yellows so they don't get a penalty.

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Author:	JJ [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
cambridge wrote: but we had to wait someone hurting himself to think it was time to rethink procedures. We must not, however, become emotional and hysterical whenever we see cranes and marshals on the track. Both are very often needed during many sessions, in every racing series. You can test if these pictures give you shivers (they shouldn't). After this accident it's easy to think "what if something happens" during the yellows flags, only forgetting that 99,99 % of the times nothing happens. Of course with aquaplaning chances of multiple cars losing at the same corner increases, and when the corner is flooding it's 100% sure that a car approaching the turn loses it if it has not decelerated enough. I see everyone (Bianchi, Charlie and the marshals) underestimated the chances.

Author:	Justin Time [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Jason wrote: http://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/2271/ Dr Hartstein talking about flag discipline, quite damning really. Especially when he mentions drivers in briefings asking how fast they can go under yellows so they don't get a penalty. Amen to that. Quote: For the sake of my sanity, I’ll point out again that double yellows mean that the track might be obstructed, that there are HUMAN BEINGS WORKING trackside of the Armco, and to BE PREPARED TO STOP.

Author:	NVirkkula [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
JJ wrote: After this accident it's easy to think "what if something happens" during the yellows flags, only forgetting that 99,99 % of the times nothing happens. The false sense of safety. Happens to all of us. We only see the most plausible option to happen because that's what our experience and knowledge is telling us is going to happen. You drive through crossroads on yellows because usually you get away with it. Then one time the light turns red and you think "there's no stopping now, I'm going to make it." But then there's a pedestrian who's focusing on cars red and rushes on the road like he's done hundred times before to avoid waiting for too long for his green.

Author:	gkmotorsport [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Justin Time wrote: Jason wrote: http://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/2271/ Dr Hartstein talking about flag discipline, quite damning really. Especially when he mentions drivers in briefings asking how fast they can go under yellows so they don't get a penalty. Amen to that. Quote: For the sake of my sanity, I’ll point out again that double yellows mean that the track might be obstructed, that there are HUMAN BEINGS WORKING trackside of the Armco, and to BE PREPARED TO STOP. Pretty scathing, and deservedly so. Interesting that he chooses to call Maldonado out by name. Gary Anderson has used his Autosport column to push localised speed limits, which he argues is easy to implement and monitor, if nothing else. It would probably be pretty easy to have the limiter function at the pit lane speed limit in the pit lane, and then a slightly higher one on-track. I dare say it would also be easy to dish out an instant drive-through for anyone getting it wrong, simply from the existing telemetry.

Author:	LucasWheldon [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
just like greg moore said once, "things happen at speed" but again it was a whole set of factors that contributed to the crash, not only one isolated thing that made him shatter the car onto the tractor

Author:	gkmotorsport [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Someone asked him in the comments about the possibility of other injuries, and whether or not he could have lowered himself in any way: Gary Hartstein wrote: Not a lot of room to duck actually. That said, deceleration in the longitudinal axis DOES lead to some “submarining”. There is pretty significant axial loading of the spinal cord in severe decelerations and that may have taken a cm or two off his height.