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2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
https://tbk-light.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=8928		 Page 71 of 79
Author:  Philthy82 [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
It'll probably be a lot easier and safer to just ensure no recovery vehicle is on a live track - a rule change to bring the pace car out before any other non-competitor vehicles are brought on track. Or marshals for that matter.
Author:  Soul Reaver [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
kals wrote:
kals wrote:
Just because we watch motorsport doesn't automatically mean our opinion is correct. We armchair experts can also be incredibly annoying and wrong for the same reasons why we despise these social media commentators. Me included.


I'll quote myself because my point has got a little lost. The original point was made in response to some complaining about those narrow minded individuals who turn into field experts every time something new happens in the world. But the thing is, we the members of TBK demonstrate on the forum that we sometimes behave the same way. We're all guilty of it one way or another, including me. So complaining about others doing it comes across as a little hypocritical.

Of course we're going to speculate, discuss, argue about the sport we love. That's why we're here. But that doesn't mean our opinion is right all the time and that because we're a motorsport community our points hold more merit than elsewhere.


Youre totally right. I hate discussing my point of view into peoples mind, even worse is reading one that seems really bad with no good reason backing off. I cant stand 5 min of conversation with stupid fans or people that suddenly turns into an expert and never bother watching before that X point. From page 30 up to here, I sould only like to see the updates on his medichal conditions, and each discussion topic ONLY ONCE. I read about 5 posts of polemics and had enough.
Author:  NVirkkula [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Philthy82 wrote:
It'll probably be a lot easier and safer to just ensure no recovery vehicle is on a live track - a rule change to bring the pace car out before any other non-competitor vehicles are brought on track. Or marshals for that matter.


Indycar made this same conclusion in 1990's after few serious incidents. They started to use full course caution and installed the Andretti bumpers to all the recovery vehicles. We've discussed a lot about F1's inability to adopt anything from them, especially with the safety car calls made recently.

What bothers me is the decisions made prior this accident and how they affected the outcome. The start time of the race was not moved, race started behind the SC, then gets red flagged. Then too many laps were spent behind the SC until we got the first green, then everyone one was already changing to the inters. Did Charlie feel pressured from this at the end? Weather was getting worse and the darkness was falling in. Given how much time the F1 safety car rules consume, the race would probably needed to be red flag due the dark. Using just local yellow allowed the race to continue for the moment, maybe finished in time for the TV schedule. On a hindsight, all those decisions were wrong. But it was the butterfly effect that started from the decision not to start the race earlier and doing it exactly on the way it was done. In the end, wrong decisions were made on and off the track. The end result is the sum of all of them.
Author:  acopip [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Is Jules actually in coma? I think that information got a bit lost.

Edit:
What I also saw on other forums is that they post the video without a warning or anything. Worse on facebook where people are used to "like" videos were other people are decapitated. This is why I prefer reading the discussions over here.
Author:  BrainPain [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Critical but stable means coma if I have understood the definition correctly.
Author:  Coldtyre [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
codename_47 wrote:
At least we're informed idiots as opposed to ill informed idiots who appear to be everywhere at times like these ;)

I agree. Some here don't understand the slight difference between a right opinion, and a relevant one. An informed, relevant guess or opinion can be wrong in the end. That's what debating is for. When opinions are ill-informed and completely stupid in the first place, you're not in debating territory anymore to start with.

If someone only wants medical updates and expert opinions: there are media sites for that. This is the Suzuka GP discussion thread, where people discuss the events that took place at Suzuka.

Since the accident happened, I have seen very little opinions here that are completely off the point, and quite frankly the discussion itself had been enjoyable, respectful and constructive.
Author:  gkmotorsport [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Talladega wrote:
I been lurking the thread since the crash and I can confirm:
- top notch medical analysis ranging from "he'll recover just fine" to "his family are probably on their way to Japan to say goodbye to him"
- expert reasoning on the reasons of the crash
- CSI level investigation on how that pixelated excerpt from a video shows how he clearly hit the tractor head-on. Or was it the left front wheel? Is that his glove we see there, or part of the headrest? Or flesh from his mangled body?
- Blame given to pretty much anything and everything. Fingers pointed without proof or evidence. 100% overreaction. I wouldn't want some of the people here to be part of the jury at my trial.

I know that emotions are strong, and lack of information opens the door to speculation, but people need to take a step back and look at their attitude. If one of your relatives was in the same situation, would you like to have all the neighbours acting like this around you?


I think you (and several others, to be fair) may have understood the point of a 'discussion forum'. It's a type of website on the internet where people gather to share their (sometimes rank amateur, sometimes well-informed) opinion on events. The users aren't always right because of the amount of information available to them, but are often emotionally driven to comment anyway. It's human nature to want to dissect and understand a traumatic event, however far removed from it they are in reality.

Unfortunately, you seem to have confused TBK with a cold, dispassionate press release service. If one of our relatives was in the same situation, like it or not, the neighbours would be acting like this.

I guess this makes TBK the curtain-twitching centre of the F1 world.
Author:  micha [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Is it an idea to do a poll on the race based prior to Bianchi's crash?

We decided to wait with it a bit but I think unless Jules walks out of the hospital tomorrow and races in Russia the outcome will be heavily biased.

Maybe also a topic title change?
Author:  Coldtyre [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
l'Equipe: Professor Gérard Saillant has arrived in Japan. The parents wanted to make an assessment of the situation with him before issuing further updates.
Author:  Tobias [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
one has to compare how high Jules sits in the car in ordinary circumstances (Suzuka Friday Practice)

Image

vs after the crash (image to be found some pages back I'm sure).

the black circle (point where his visor originates) is clearly way below where it should be.
Author:  gkmotorsport [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
I didn't know this, but Saillant is an orthopaedic surgeon - I had always assumed he was a brain surgeon for some reason.
Author:  mclaren2008 [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Just seen the video for the first time, appalling :( one of the worst accidents I've seen on a race track
Author:  Justin Time [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Tobias wrote:
one has to compare how high Jules sits in the car in ordinary circumstances (Suzuka Friday Practice)

Image

vs after the crash (image to be found some pages back I'm sure).

the black circle (point where his visor originates) is clearly way below where it should be.

You have to take into consideration, that the helmet goes up and down, depending on the g-forces. For instance, when they are driving very fast, they are literally sucked out of the cockpit, whereas when the brake, they are pressed deeply into the cockpit. So that's not really an indication. You'd have to find a picture where he's stationary, from the same angle with the head at the same angle.


What I don't fully understand is that people always tend to look for the responsibility of an accident on the system surrounding it. Which really bugs me. I'm more of a Jeremy Clarkson advocate of the responsibility of yourself and your own actions. Without deference to the current sensibility of people, you have to investigate Jules' actions too. The telemetry shows that he accelerated up to 216 kph right before he spun off the track, which means that he didn't back off at all, despite double yellows. The drivers simply have to be more respectful towards this rule. Then, knee-jerk reactions (new rules regarding the recovery of a vehicle, sc., etc.) are totally unnecessary.
Author:  gkmotorsport [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Justin Time wrote:
Tobias wrote:
Without deference to the current sensibility of people, you have to investigate Jules' actions too. The telemetry shows that he accelerated up to 216 kph right before he spun off the track, which means that he didn't back off at all, despite double yellows. The drivers simply have to be more respectful towards this rule. Then, knee-jerk reactions (new rules regarding the recovery of a vehicle, sc., etc.) are totally unnecessary.


I suspect this will be quietly forgotten about, whatever the outcome, even though it's a very important point. I would be interested to see the speeds of other drivers as they passed Sutil's accident, as I suspect you won't find his speed to be significantly higher than the average.
Author:  Ian-S [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
BrainPain wrote:
Critical but stable means coma if I have understood the definition correctly.


I think what he means is, is it a medically induced coma, or a natural one, they haven't clarified this (not that they really have to if they don't want to).
Author:  Ayrton S. [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
gkmotorsport wrote:
Justin Time wrote:
Tobias wrote:
Without deference to the current sensibility of people, you have to investigate Jules' actions too. The telemetry shows that he accelerated up to 216 kph right before he spun off the track, which means that he didn't back off at all, despite double yellows. The drivers simply have to be more respectful towards this rule. Then, knee-jerk reactions (new rules regarding the recovery of a vehicle, sc., etc.) are totally unnecessary.


I suspect this will be quietly forgotten about, whatever the outcome, even though it's a very important point. I would be interested to see the speeds of other drivers as they passed Sutil's accident, as I suspect you won't find his speed to be significantly higher than the average.



Myybe Jules drove too fast and didn't see/respect the yellow flags.
But I think I saw Ericsson driving just after Jules crash, running that curve at high speed too. (I can't remember were I saw the telemetry gif).

So, it may be a point to look after, about the yellow flags shown before that turn 7.
Author:  Ian-S [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
In his defence, it's also a lot harder to see flags than you would believe in those conditions.
Author:  Justin Time [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Ian-S wrote:
In his defence, it's also a lot harder to see flags than you would believe in those conditions.

I don't think that's an argument. Apart from the flags, we have huge yellow flashing LED-boards, we have yellow flashing LEDs on the steering wheel and we have pit-radio. I think the FIA has to investigate how the drivers react to such yellow flag scenarios and raise the awareness from the drivers. Because after all, they are the ones that actually operate and control the cars.
Author:  fede999 [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Am I the only one thinking he could have had a mechanical failure? It is really weird how he just goes straight on, assumingly well past the braking point, at unabated speed without even trying to put the car into a spin.
Author:  tick-tock [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Apologies if this is nothing new, but there were a few nuggets of information here, neither particularly cheerful:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns29090.html

Quote:
Livio Oricchio, the respected correspondent for Universo, claims Marussia telemetry shows Bianchi struck the vehicle at a speed of 203 kilometres per hour.


Quote:
With official information scant, it is believed Bianchi is lying in intensive care in an artificial coma after surgery for subdural hematoma.

It is also believed the Marussia driver is attached to an artificial respirator.
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