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2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia
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Author:  StefMeister [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

Brilliant analysis of the Hamilton/Maldonado collision by Chandhok on the Skypad.

He's actually been doing a better job than Ant usually does.

Author:  Tobias [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

it certainly pays dividends this weekend if your name is Alonso

Author:  aerogi [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

StefMeister wrote:
Brilliant analysis of the Hamilton/Maldonado collision by Chandhok on the Skypad.

He's actually been doing a better job than Ant usually does.

what did he say?

Author:  maclauren [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

phil1993 wrote:
maclauren wrote:
phil1993 wrote:
Alonso leading the championship, Ferrari 4th in the WCC.

When was the last time that happened?


After the 2005 Malaysian GP?


Oop, I meant that one driver does so much for his team.


Yeah, I was just being smart :p I dont think that's ever happened.

Author:  Fergo [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

Gallie wrote:
Fergie wrote:
I apologise for being a bit extreme about Maldonado, but I think he really does need a reality check. You can't go around driving into people, often on purpose.


Maldonado has been at fault couple of times in the past, but what Lewis did today was inexcusable. It's not only Lewis, but I've seen many drivers on the inside let their cars roll to the outside leaving no room for the driver on the outside except for running off the track. Same happened here and Pastor jumped a kerb and was a passenger in his own car from then on...

Not even talking about the state Lewis's tyres were at that moment...

maybe it's me, but all those that put blame on Pastor have a English flag in their profile ;)

I don't feel its any different to what happened at Spa in 2008. Raikkonen pushed Hamilton off and he rejoined on the straight. Maldonado could have quite easily done the same.
While Hamilton did push him, you don't come back on the track and crash into someone. There's been many times when drivers get pushed right out on either straights (which we've seen this year in Bahrain) and corners. I'd also argue that after Maldonado dropped back after turning in, Hamilton just had the line.

As for the English blaming Maldonado, perhaps i'm inclined to defend Hamilton and that's just how these things go. It's similar to how Schumacher is defended like with him crashing into Spain and being reckless in practice, although Schumacher was certainly at fault with Senna whereas it's arguable either way today.

Author:  webbsy [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

phil1993 wrote:
Alonso leading the championship, Ferrari 4th in the WCC.

When was the last time that happened?


This sums up Alonso to a tee. I am not a rabid fan boy of anyone on this grid, but i truly believe that Alonso can be ranked up there alongside the very greats with names like Fangio, Senna, Schumacher, Prost and Clark. This guy gets everything out of the car and is one of the most COMPLETE drivers ever to grace the sport.

Before people jump up and down and say you can't compare him against Senn or Clark remember that even they had days and races where they were average, but like Alonso and to an extent Vettel its about limiting these rare average days. THAT is what makes a great driver one of THE greats.

Author:  Gaara [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

What happened to Perez? He was quite far ahead of Button with a few laps to go.

Author:  RtN [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

maclauren wrote:
phil1993 wrote:
Oop, I meant that one driver does so much for his team.


Yeah, I was just being smart :p I dont think that's ever happened.


Might've happened a bit with Schumacher in the 90s if they were using the same points system as today.

Author:  phil1993 [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

Pastor is off to the stewards.

Author:  Gaara [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

Does Susie Wolff have a superlicence?

Author:  phil1993 [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

Gaara wrote:
Does Susie Wolff have a superlicence?


Nope, but Valtteri Bottas does.

Author:  StefMeister [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

aerogi wrote:
StefMeister wrote:
Brilliant analysis of the Hamilton/Maldonado collision by Chandhok on the Skypad.

He's actually been doing a better job than Ant usually does.

what did he say?
Basically that he saw it as Maldonado's fault.

Said that while Hamilton did push him off, Once he was off track he should have cut through the escape road. Pointed out that when Pastor got on the kurb he'd have momentarily lost steering & should have realised this beforehand.


Made great use of Skypad to slow down/pause replays to better describe his point.

Author:  RtN [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

At least Lewis now knows he was justified in shortcutting the track at Spa all those years back.

He knows what would have happened to Kimi if he didn't.

Author:  Echti [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

StefMeister wrote:
Said that while Hamilton did push him off, Once he was off track he should have cut through the escape road. Pointed out that when Pastor got on the kurb he'd have momentarily lost steering & should have realised this beforehand.


That's how I see it as well.

Author:  Gallie [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

Fergie wrote:
Gallie wrote:
Fergie wrote:
I apologise for being a bit extreme about Maldonado, but I think he really does need a reality check. You can't go around driving into people, often on purpose.


Maldonado has been at fault couple of times in the past, but what Lewis did today was inexcusable. It's not only Lewis, but I've seen many drivers on the inside let their cars roll to the outside leaving no room for the driver on the outside except for running off the track. Same happened here and Pastor jumped a kerb and was a passenger in his own car from then on...

Not even talking about the state Lewis's tyres were at that moment...

maybe it's me, but all those that put blame on Pastor have a English flag in their profile ;)

I don't feel its any different to what happened at Spa in 2008. Raikkonen pushed Hamilton off and he rejoined on the straight. Maldonado could have quite easily done the same.
While Hamilton did push him, you don't come back on the track and crash into someone. There's been many times when drivers get pushed right out on either straights (which we've seen this year in Bahrain) and corners. I'd also argue that after Maldonado dropped back after turning in, Hamilton just had the line.

As for the English blaming Maldonado, perhaps i'm inclined to defend Hamilton and that's just how these things go. It's similar to how Schumacher is defended like with him crashing into Spain and being reckless in practice, although Schumacher was certainly at fault with Senna whereas it's arguable either way today.


first about the English blaming Pastor, I know that's how things go, I would do the same. I'm not a Pastor fanboy, not against Lewis, just against drivers who don't leave room for the attacking driver on the outside.

As you said yourself, there's been many drivers pushed off track this year and before, without any penalties. Lately it amazes me how easy it is to push another driver onto the dirt and drive off like nothing happened. It shoudn't be accepted at all, Pastor braked very late, stayed on the outside and if Lewis would have left some room Pastor would have had the line into the lefthander, not Lewis like you are saying.

Lewis was having the line because he ran Pastor off the track.

Author:  StefMeister [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

Both Vettel & Grosjean suffered alternator failures, Both use the same Renault supplied parts.

Grosjean stopped because the battery level dropped due to the alternator failure & there wasn't enough power left to power the fuel pump.

Author:  Fergo [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

Gallie wrote:
first about the English blaming Pastor, I know that's how things go, I would do the same. I'm not a Pastor fanboy, not against Lewis, just against drivers who don't leave room for the attacking driver on the outside.

As you said yourself, there's been many drivers pushed off track this year and before, without any penalties. Lately it amazes me how easy it is to push another driver onto the dirt and drive off like nothing happened. It shoudn't be accepted at all, Pastor braked very late, stayed on the outside and if Lewis would have left some room Pastor would have had the line into the lefthander, not Lewis like you are saying.

Lewis was having the line because he ran Pastor off the track.

I agree with what you are saying about drivers pushing each other off, but a strong precedent has been set at Spa in '08 and Bahrain this year.
I completely agree that's the most arguable bit of the whole incident, but Maldonado should have rejoined after the chicane rather than forcing himself back onto the track and in a way putting himself into the position where he couldn't steer on the kerb. (not that you can't say Hamilton didn't put him there, just that he could have driven around it.) I think it's relatively accepted now that you can push people especially in chicanes like that with run off and at the end of the day Maldonado could have rejoined and overtook him at the next hairpin.

Author:  phil1993 [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

Fergie wrote:
I completely agree that's the most arguable bit of the whole incident, but Maldonado should have rejoined after the chicane rather than forcing himself back onto the track and in a way putting himself into the position where he couldn't steer on the kerb. (not that you can't say Hamilton didn't put him there, just that he could have driven around it.) I think it's relatively accepted now that you can push people especially in chicanes like that with run off and at the end of the day Maldonado could have rejoined and overtook him at the next hairpin.


Exactly.

If F1 wants to have miles of run-off, it'd be bloody useful if the drivers used them.

Author:  StefMeister [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

Someone in management at Marussia is upset that Timo Glock didn't let them know sooner that he was unwell because had he told them sooner they would have put D'Ambrosio in the car.

Author:  phil1993 [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012 Formula One European Grand Prix, Valencia

StefMeister wrote:
Someone in management at Marussia is upset that Timo Glock didn't let them know sooner that he was unwell because had he told them sooner they would have put D'Ambrosio in the car.


They knew on Thursday he was bad because he cancelled media engagements.

It's up to the management to decide on their drivers.

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