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according to these pictures i think Webber gave him enough room. You can see Vettel is right on the white line and then goes to the right to get a better position for the corner.

copy/paste from another forum

Quite a few for me, but in my review for another site, I gave three drivers nine, and out of those I'd say Hamilton, just ahead of Button

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

I'd just say both caused it and leave it at that

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Vettel clearly moved away from the white line, just saying.

The one thing this incident shows imo is that Vettel is RBR's little baby and that Webber does not have a drive with them next year. But it's all fun and games.

Makes the fight for the championship even more interesting if Webber goes on to dominate a few more races and pad his points lead further.

Oh yeah the hugs on the pit wall confirmed that, would they have hugged Webber?...i dont think so. Shows they have a more paternal instinct towards him, thus a more emotional attachment to him. They might have absolute equal equipment in the race which is why Horner is saying they are treated equally, but emotional support....Vettlel clearly is the apple of their eye. The team has been critical of Webber in the past IIRC where as the same kind of criticism hasnt been levelled at Vettel.

Also a point i made earlier, Vettel chose to go way down the inside on the dirty line where he would have had crap all over his tires, making it hard for him to stop in time, so when he says he was in front and the corner was his...i dont think so as i think he would have overshot the corner.

I think next race Webber is going to have a slow pitstop. A wheelnut blocking, a tyre not ready in time, something like that. RBR will think of something.

I don't think they'll go that low, otherwise they'll end up with the FIA on their tails. They couldn't get away with blatant acts like that. Think McLaren 3 years ago

All it takes though is for Webber and his engineer to feel like outcasts within the team to really hurt their confidence and spirit though and by the sounds of what the management have been saying that could be the case. There is no doubt now given what the management said and the story changing shenanigans and all the pit wall hugging, no shit for making a "spastic" signal when he left the car etc etc that Vettel is favoured within the team but hell if i was the team I would do the same thing. Up and coming star, young and marketable against old and nearing retirement, but fuck me they make a cockup trying to cover it up, it's fucking hilarious.

RBR have simply managed to make themselves look like twats now.

Webber, for not leting Vettel intimidate him.

9

Like you said, I hope this doesn't kill the positive momentum Webber has going for him at the moment. If you don't think management is behind you, it can colour every action and make you second-guess things that need to be taken on faith.

With the 15 point gap between Webber and Vettel, I can't imagine they'll want to favour Vettel at the moment unless he closes up in points.

Vettel still has more votes *rolleyes* Guess we have a few Red Bull team bosses as members here.

Internal politicking within Formula One Teams is part and parcel of the sport, and has been since it began. From Fangio commandeering his teammate's car when his own broke down in the 50's, to the Piquet/Mansell power struggle at Williams in the mid 80's or the well documented Senna/Prost battles with Senna getting the management and Honda on his side.

If people think teammate's up and down the grid are always on an even keel they must live in a really naive world. I heard little complaints when Hamilton got all the preference at Mclaren, the arguments he was better than Kovalainen is true but it doesn't make it any less disappointing, now for the first time in two seasons [and some would argue his F1 career], Hamilton is treated equally to his teammate and it's not always gone his way.

Internal politicking effectively got Massa his 2008 Title shot, the development post Silverstone suiting Massa's needs and screwing up Raikkonen's and the rest as they say is history. Raikkonen struggled in Quals. Massa excelled. Hey presto. Favoured Ferrari to battle Lewis.

I'm not saying its happening at Red Bull, even if the higher up's may favour Vettel, they have had no trouble with Webber being victorious in the past two weekends or even before. I do think too much is made of this fuel saving stuff. The same happened at Mclaren on Sunday, Jenson tried to pull a Vettel and get the jump on Lewis since he had saved more fuel trailing in everyone's [read Webber, Vettel, Lewis] wake since the start but Lewis fought back. Hence why Lewis seemed rather miffed after being told on the radio they were BOTH saving fuel.

Maybe Vettel is the golden boy, however whether we like it or not intra team politics can ultimately win you championships. Just ask Coulthard. Mika being Dennis's lovechild didn't make it easy for him. Plus as countless examples have proven, unless your car is Mclaren 1988 dominant, having two drivers battle each other can just end up giving the opposition the title. See 2003 with the Williams pairing or 2007 with the Mclaren's.

I wouldn't be suprised if Webber like Montoya in 2003 leaves if he feels he's not getting the fair end of the stick. In all honesty though Red Bull created the situation, if their car wasn't so fragile Vettel would have probably claimed pole and this would never have happened!

Sorry for the long post.

The fuel saving call isn't really the issue, the issue is how Red Bull team bosses have sided with Vettel against Webber on the crash, while just about everyone else, particularly the drivers and commentators (who are best placed to judge) has backed Webber. Nor does Vettel's glitch in qual have anything to do with it.

The bottom line is, if you as a team manager have two closely-matched teammates come together in a situation like that, to immediately side with one and be quite blatant about it to the press before an internal discussion has taken place is pretty shitty and very stupid. And I'd say the same thing had they blamed Vettel in the same manner.

That is the thing really, they have made it sooo obvious and not on purpose either because the amount of times they have changed their story since points towards attempting to cover their arses.

The fuel saving this is bs as well, if he was really needing to save fuel then why would they be happy to let him push so hard and set really quick times to the end of the race? If their answer to that is "we wanted to save fuel so he could go harder later on" then it's retarded because the worst time to go fuel saving is when you have your teammate and two other cars sliding up your arsehole.

But the great thing for us is that Webber's not gonna hide his feelings if he knows that he is being out of favour

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

Actually he probably will. He has been very tight lipped regarding internal shenanigans since the incident and I'd say he realises if he pulled a Barrichello that it would not do him any favours.