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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:23 pm 
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To be honest I think part of the problem was that Kova wan't actually trying that hard to defend. If he was trying really hard to defend really hard he would've braked later.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:49 pm 
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Well, the race was alright.
Amazing accident from aussie champ' but we can't blame Kovalainen, in fact, i don't think we can blame anybody on that one. That was very fast, both were fighting, Webber should have known the difference of speed between a Lotus and a Red Bull...he also knew that the braking point was coming up, quickly. In my opinion, it's just a race incident like we see very often (but there's always someone to blame, apparently)
Other than the crash...well, there wasn't anything to be excited about, really.
Glad to see how safe the cars are, though :thumbsup:

Now, really really looking forward to British GP :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:40 pm 
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i vote for Vettel!

Good to see him got his second win!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:42 pm 
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I just don't like this race!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:49 pm 
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RtN wrote:
Kamui Kobayashi is such an intelligent driver, it's almost unbelievable. He managed to keep those tyres alive and the much faster McLaren behind him for 30 laps, and when it came to overtaking Alonso and Buemi he didn't have a look at every corner, he just waited for their guards to drop and he pounced. It was wonderful.

What impressed me also was the fact that Ross Brawn didn't use the same strategy as Kamui. Michael was 3rd when he pitted gaving his position to Kamui who showed them the right strategy. Mercedes is quicker than Sauber, so I suppose Schumacher could have opened a bigger gap to the cars behind and finish in a even better position than that of Kobayashi.

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To be fair I was just in a bad mood yesterday - apologies for my angry tone, and thanks for not snapping back. +1 respect points to you sir!
To be honest, this season is a mixture of things. The 09 Brawn was developed by 800+ folks with a huge budget behind them, this 2010 Merc was done with almost half of that in less than half the time. It was always going to be a bit of a struggle for them. There are some really, really good people there though, and they should be back sometime soon hopefully.
From what I understand, Red Bull have approx 600 staff at the moment ;).

that's ok. ;)
I think it's perfectly normal for you, who knows the people there much better than all of us, to say what is probably more accurate about their capacities. About Red Bull, I read a while back on Atlas that RBR had much less people than that but that wasn't from a trustfull source either.
Mercedes impressed me this year untill this last weekend, because I wasn't expecting them to be close to Ferrari and Mclaren, but somehow they shoot themselves in the foot this last weekend, even in the strategy.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:06 pm 
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It's right that Kova braked later the Webber should,but Webber was trying to go again in his slipstream 30m before the braking point.
Is there any sense since Webber already had enough pace and enbough room to go through the inside?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:15 pm 
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Best race in Valencia just because of the 'Red Bull gives u wings'-moment... Still the worst GP on the calendar tho

4 for me.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:43 pm 
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James B wrote:
I don't think so, he said he was defending. Either he was very aggressively defending or he was caught in two minds, and both are quite dangerous

Mark said there was about 80 m braking distance. He's probably exaggerating but it just goes to show the difference in quality between these cars - the Loti are actually quite decent in a straight line, faster than the Red Bulls in quali in the speed traps, but if Heikki really had to brake that early for the corner, that just shows why he shouldn't have been defending his position that aggressively. As Mark has said, there was no need for him to do that, because he would've passed him soon after anyway (and equally Mark shouldn't have rushed into passing Heikki if he knew that - but then that just leads down the old "Damon should've waited until the next corner at Adelaide" line of argument which is just stupid). Gascoyne's on crack if he's seriously comparing this to Gilles at Jarama

This is Heikki we're talking about.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:02 pm 
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I think people - especially Ferrari - are blowing up the actual closeness to the legality of Hamilton's SC pass.

Hamilton didn't ruin the Ferraris. Hamilton could have passed the SC without that hesitation and received no penalty and Ferrari would still be where it is.

The distance was literally a meter or less between legal and illegal at speed. It wasn't as if he "overtook" the SC.

According to FA, Hamilton was ONE METER ahead of him when this incident happened. If that's 1m then the scale of the offence is millimeters.

I think Ferrari just need to get over their bad luck in the situation.

McLaren didn't influence the Ferraris. They would still be where they are. Ferrari shifting blame from bad luck to Hamilton and McLaren being bad for F1 and the FIA not punishing teams enough to benefit the Ferrari team in that situation to undo their bad luck.

That's just bullshit to me from the mouths of the Ferrari team. It's just bad luck.


-- To clarify - I do think Hamilton should have had a stop and go penalty at the least. Overtaking the SC should be more than a DT penalty. But I find it hard to feel as if he actually cheated. And I'd hate to see a car get DQ over 1 meter in this situation. It was close. Talking tenths or hundredths of a second.

And I completely disagree with the 5s penalties. That's putting safety at the lower end of priority. Needs to be a drive through minimum for missing delta times. However.... I don't understand how a car in the last two corners can really avoid missing the delta time when pitting... So I was surprised at a few of the people getting penalised.


Last edited by ixnay on Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:06 pm 
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Expect anything different from Ferrari?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:08 pm 
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Nope, not really.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:10 pm 
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Maybe if Ferrari built a better car then Alonso wouldn't need to moan. Its just pathetic, whenever Ferrari aren't helped they complain. They didn't say that their win in Bahrain was down to another team failure, they heralded it as a great Alonso win.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:17 pm 
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I didn't watch the race, but having watched highlights and read various articles, I still can't work out why Alonso (and the rest of the pack) weren't waved round when the safety car came out until they picked up Vettel?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:18 pm 
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7. it was good, got dull in the middle but in the end action...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:58 pm 
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Ferrari could face FIA sanctions

The Guardian wrote:
Ferrari could face action from the FIA following their claims that Sunday's European Grand Prix had been "manipulated". A number of officials from the sport's governing body are known to be angered by the Scuderia's intemperate response after the penalty drive-through awarded against Lewis Hamilton for overtaking the safety car did not prevent the British driver from finishing second in Spain and doubling his lead in the title race to six points.

The world "scandal" appeared on Ferrari's official website, the team principal Stefano Domenicali said he was angry and Fernando Alonso, who finished eighth, claimed that it had been a "manipulated race".

Replays did show that Hamilton was guilty of breaking the rules – though it was a hairline decision – but FIA officials were at pains to point out that the delay in implementing Hamilton's punishment was a mere seven minutes and not the 20 laps claimed by Alonso.

Yesterday they were still seeing red at Ferrari. The team's vice-president, Piero Ferrari, said: "I am incredulous and bitter, not just for Ferrari, but for the sport as a whole, as this is not the sort of thing one expects from professionals."

But there is a widespread feeling in the sport that the pressure is beginning to get to Ferrari. The pre-season favourites have been a massive disappointment since winning the opening race in Bahrain. In Valencia, on Alonso's home soil, they were expected to regroup and much was expected from their upgraded car. But Alonso again finished down the field and Felipe Massa, who is showing signs that he is not the driver he once was, was back in 11th.

When Red Bull's team principal, Christian Horner, was asked if the race had been manipulated he said: "No, I don't think so. I think the safety car rules have not played out for Ferrari, and McLaren was perhaps a bit naughty with the way it worked it, but it got a penalty for that. Arguably it didn't cost them, but that's just the way it worked out. I don't think it was manipulated. The FIA just need to look at the safety car rules in the future."


Would serve them right. Mosely would have come down on them like a ton of bricks so far.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:07 pm 
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Go on. Smash them and drive them out of the sport for bringing it into disrepute.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:09 pm 
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You know, all this talk could have been avoided if 1) the SC came out and picked up the leader, or 2) allowed cars to pass until the leader was behind it.

I thought this was meant to be the case anyway, so something clearly went wrong yet again under FIA ruling...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:11 pm 
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Domenicalli talking about the testing regs today

Quote:
"I think that a lot of people like to speak," said Domenicali when asked by AUTOSPORT about the testing situation. "If I have a problem I use my mobile phone and I call personally. This is my style; I don't use [the press] to say something".


Mindblowing.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:35 pm 
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Definetly Kamui Kobayashi. :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:56 pm 
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Kobayashi, clever strategy and great overtakings, he is still the same like in 09, he just needs a good car


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