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2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
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Author:  codename_47 [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
webbsy wrote:
So the next question is....will Marussia be on the grid next weekend? Will it be one car or two? Can they even field a one car team in the regs? Cause for a cash strapped team that is a huge hit to the finances.


Force Majure is written into the regs to cover circumstances such as this.

Even Williams only ran Damon Hill at Monaco after Senna died, and that was 2 weeks after Imola IIRC, so I don't think Marussia will have
any problems asking the FIA to just run 1 car.
Author:  codename_47 [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Gaara wrote:
codename_47 wrote:
Was it the A1GP round somewhere that had a recovery helicopter?

Might be worth looking at, if they can make a small enough one that's downwash from the rotors didn't affect the cars on track while still having enough power to lift a car away.


Did they actually implement it or was it just talk?


Seems so:

http://www.crash.net/a1gp/news/560/1/ja ... t-win.html

(3rd paragraph from the end. Our old friend Nelson Piquet Jr was the recipient of it during the race at Dubai)


Image

(Demonstration picture )
Author:  Gaara [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
codename_47 wrote:
webbsy wrote:
So the next question is....will Marussia be on the grid next weekend? Will it be one car or two? Can they even field a one car team in the regs? Cause for a cash strapped team that is a huge hit to the finances.


Force Majure is written into the regs to cover circumstances such as this.

Even Williams only ran Damon Hill at Monaco after Senna died, and that was 2 weeks after Imola IIRC, so I don't think Marussia will have
any problems asking the FIA to just run 1 car.


Don't forget Simtek only ran a car for Brabham as well. But that is 20 years ago though, FIA is stricter now and I think it'll only be if they can't build a second car which I don't think will be a problem for Marussia.
Author:  cambridge [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Gaara wrote:
codename_47 wrote:
Was it the A1GP round somewhere that had a recovery helicopter?

Might be worth looking at, if they can make a small enough one that's downwash from the rotors didn't affect the cars on track while still having enough power to lift a car away.


Did they actually implement it or was it just talk?


this looks to me more like a "we have a big dick and we can afford choppers" solution "Dubai style" than a practical one.


being able to lift a 700kg car it's like being able to lift 10 people, so it will take a pretty big copter, not a small ( 2 passengers ) one.
plus it must be able to handle a 700kg load hanged on a 20 or more meters cable and this is not what the average chopper is designed for.
plus it will take much more to coordinate the intervention ( it takes much more to have a chopper take off and deploy than a tractor ) and it's more difficult to operate it ( you need to have marshalls on the ground in radio contact with the pilot , telling him how to move and what to do ).
plus it would make very dangerous to use it in case of rain like today.
plus the car can still crash under a tree, under a tower, under a tunnel, or anywhere that makes impossible the chopper to operate.
not to mention that having a chopper flying around with a 700 kg load under a cable that can snap or swerve anytime it's not safe even for the people attending at the event.

all considered this looks like a solution with many cons and very few pros.
Author:  farruquito [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
farruquito wrote:
Telemetry and GPS analysis from the Formula 1 app:
http://tinypic.com/r/30rmgp5/8
-Sutil crashes at 1:27:05 between turns 7 and 8. Bianchi is just in front of him at the moment of the crash
-Yellow flag at 1:27:10 (+0:05)
-Double yellow flag at 1:27:27 (+0:22)
-Message announcing Sutil car stopped appears at 1:27:37 (+0:32)
-Bianchi crashes at 1:29:03. Before the impact, he had reached 213km/h (+1:58)
-Message announcing Bianche car stopped appears at 1:29:37 (+2:32)
-Safety car deployed at 1:30:01 (+2:56)

Other relevant events:
-Ambulance deployed message at 1:34:53 http://tinypic.com/r/28mmdld/8
-Red flag at 1:36:29 http://tinypic.com/r/2ekkh9h/8


In case you want better quality of this, i reuploaded to MediaCrush. Avoiding Youtube because of FOM
Author:  Pretzel [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
So from what I hear, this sounds like similar injuries to those suffered by Schumacer earlier this year?
Author:  Tobias [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
there is no "similar" in these cases. Hope he makes a full recovery and drives again.
Author:  Karan [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
That's a very broad statement. Yes you could say that it's similar in that they were both serious head injuries. But really, no two brain injuries are the same so the outcomes can be vastly different.
Author:  cambridge [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
at the time of schumacher incident doctor said that every head trauma makes a story on its own, so i think we should just wait and see
Author:  James B [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
As Hartstein says, if he's breathing on his own (as reported), that means the surgeons and doctors are happy with his condition. Schumacher was on a ventilator for a long time: http://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/2014/1 ... eculation/
Author:  Pretzel [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
oh I agree it the result might turn out different, but I was just noting they both suffered head trauma from an apparent blunt force impact.
Author:  StefMeister [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
2 things I'd like to see implemented as quickly as possible to avoid similar incidents.

Firstly I think they should look at putting covers or something around all recovery vehicles to prevent cars going under them in the way Bianchi's car seems to have. Pretty sure CART did something like this back in the 90s?

And secondly they should look at adopting those ‘Slow Zones’ which WEC have introduced this year to ensure that all drivers are going plenty slow enough through areas where Marshall's & recovery vehicles need to be.


Cars will go off at times & need to be recovered, Marshal's need to go to recover them & at times a JCB or similar will be needed & in most cases the incident can be cleared very quickly so a SC isn't always really needed. Looking at what happened today, Sutil's car stopped right by the gap in the barrier where the JCB was so that incident would have been cleared up in 2 laps so for something like this a SC is not always necessary & this is exactly the sort of thing slow zones would be so useful to sort out.



BTW I love how several of the news channels i've seen are positioning things along the lines of the race should not have gone ahead because the conditions were bad & everyone knew it was too dangerous & then Only playing an interview where Massa talks about the initial start was too early & the Red flag too late while ignoring the fact that most other drivers seem to think conditions were actually not that bad.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116182
Author:  Bleu [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
codename_47 wrote:
Mäth wrote:
Jason wrote:
Throwing it out there,

Yes it was getting wetter but how do we know Jules didn't slow down for the double waved yellows? Sutil already confirmed that he saw double waved yellows whilst his car was being recovered.

Something the FIA will look at I'm sure if they can get their hands on the telemetry.

He could have contributed to his own accident.

Will probably get flamed for saying it, but I'm sure many of us has thought it.

The F1-App-GPS video I saw showed that Jules went up to 216 kph before decelerating. To me, that's not a double waved yellow behaviour :/ Especially in a blind turn, whcih sees speeds in excess of 220 kph on its first apex in dry conditions.


Which is why you can't trust a double waved yellow to be enough in any situation.

The drivers are too busy thinking about their own races and maximising any situation to their own advantage to make it completely as safe as it needs to be for the marshals to do their work.


Looking at the app data, it's basically every driver going too fast under double waved yellows, not just Bianchi. Three drivers who went through the sector (between Sutil and Bianchi accidents) under single yellows were Ericsson, Chilton and Hulkenberg.

Basically the drivers don't want to slow too much because it harms them racing-wise. If two drivers went to the sector, first slowing only little (like what is expected with single yellows) and one slows so much that it is easy to stop (as is required when double yellows are on) the first car will probably take advantage of multiple seconds.
Author:  codename_47 [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Its worse in the wet too, if you back off you lose tyre temperature exponentially, so the drivers are trained to keep pushing 100% to keep their tyres alive.
Author:  kals [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
codename_47 wrote:
webbsy wrote:
So the next question is....will Marussia be on the grid next weekend? Will it be one car or two? Can they even field a one car team in the regs? Cause for a cash strapped team that is a huge hit to the finances.


Force Majure is written into the regs to cover circumstances such as this.

Even Williams only ran Damon Hill at Monaco after Senna died, and that was 2 weeks after Imola IIRC, so I don't think Marussia will have
any problems asking the FIA to just run 1 car.


Will Stevens or Alex Rossi not available then?
Author:  RtN [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Image
Author:  Ian-S [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
kals wrote:
codename_47 wrote:
webbsy wrote:
So the next question is....will Marussia be on the grid next weekend? Will it be one car or two? Can they even field a one car team in the regs? Cause for a cash strapped team that is a huge hit to the finances.


Force Majure is written into the regs to cover circumstances such as this.

Even Williams only ran Damon Hill at Monaco after Senna died, and that was 2 weeks after Imola IIRC, so I don't think Marussia will have
any problems asking the FIA to just run 1 car.


Will Stevens or Alex Rossi not available then?


Probably depends on whether a spare car is available, that one is pretty much trash now.
Author:  Gaara [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Can't see even Marussia not having a spare.
Author:  Echti [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
webbsy wrote:
So the next question is....will Marussia be on the grid next weekend? Will it be one car or two? Can they even field a one car team in the regs? Cause for a cash strapped team that is a huge hit to the finances.


It depends on whether they are able to repair this car. And since the are not allowed to fly in parts from England to Russia (due to that embargo thing) they have to stick with the spare parts they took to Suzuka. Any maybe they will arrive in Sotchi even later due to that Typhoon so the time is very limited to rebuild a car that got literally ripped apart.
Author:  LucasWheldon [ Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
I can already see Barrichello on twitter saying "hey John Booth I'm available for Interlagos"
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