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Indycar 2011 @ Las Vegas
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Author:  Chris D [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

Foyt and Mario rip Johnson a new one.

Author:  Ian-S [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

Chris A wrote:
ChasKrall wrote:
FWIW, the crash that claimed Tony Renna was in a G-Force chassis not a Dallara. It's not just an inherent design flaw in the Dallara that sends it airborne.


In that case the G-Force chassis must have been even worse then, because from what I understand Renna just spun and caught a little of the grass before flying across the track and well up into the fence. At least in the Dallara accidents we've seen there's been a little more stimulus for take-off than a simple spin.


The cars (excluding this crash) get airborne because they are traveling at a speed where induced drag (lift - from the shape of the car) exceeds aerodynamic drag (downforce - from the wings) if the aerodynamic drag is removed, it's complicated, but basically the shape of the car excluding the wings produces lift, the wings and floor produce downforce, the two are constantly fighting one another and if one is removed, depending on the velocity of the object, it will take off, regardless of it's weight or shape (and of course if the object is traveling at high speed, the only variable that can be instantly removed is the aero drag), all cars are affected by this, from Formula 1 down to your road car.

Author:  iks [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

I just can't get past how physically destructive this was. My jaw was just left hanging when I saw this live.

I was just starting to become a fan of Wheldon's and was looking forward to see what he could do next year at Andretti. :(

Hopefully the series makes the necessary changes very soon.

Author:  Black_Jack [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

buster hymen wrote:


Thank you AJ and Mario.

I don't defend the IRL and its insistance to run a car with a flat bottom instead of tunnels to suck the car to ground more effectively, but regardless, Johnson being a shill for Nascar and trying to stab a knife into the heart of Indycar's oval traditions barely a day after Wheldons death strikes me as tasteless. Especially when he takes part in the "plate" shows Nascar puts on at superspeedways. Get off your throne and tell the fans that got hurt from flying debris in 2009 when Edwards got into the fence that Nascar isn't still dangerous with pack racing, JJ, you twat.

Author:  phil1993 [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

Just a little change to our site
http://www.f1zone.net/news/

Author:  Alonsomania [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

According to CNN the IndyCar Series claimed 7 lives in the past 15 years.

That three of those happened in another championship doesn't matter.

Author:  ellis [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

Alonsomania wrote:
According to CNN the IndyCar Series claimed 7 lives in the past 15 years.

That three of those happened in another championship doesn't matter.


Unfortunately the merging of the records of the series when CCWS folded means it's become even easier for people who don't know what they are talking about to get it very very wrong. :(

Author:  Cheeveer [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

Brayton, the 3 spectators at Charlotte, Renna, Dana, Wheldon. It isn't that wrong tbh. Then if you discount the spectators and count Krosnoff, Moore and Rodriguez you get 7 again. Then there are the spectators at Michigan that must not be forgotten either.

Well, well. The devastation from Sunday have left very eager to see the progress that Indycar will make. It is good to hear people like Miller, Andretti and Foyt are very rational about the situation.

Author:  ellis [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

dicksplash wrote:
Brayton, the 3 spectators at Charlotte, Renna, Dana, Wheldon. It isn't that wrong tbh. Then if you discount the spectators and count Krosnoff, Moore and Rodriguez you get 7 again. Then there are the spectators at Michigan that must not be forgotten either.

Well, well. The devastation from Sunday have left very eager to see the progress that Indycar will make. It is good to hear people like Miller, Andretti and Foyt are very rational about the situation.


Whether it is insensitive or not, spectators, mechanics, marshals and other officials are never counted in these sort of things. The last death people talk about in Formula One is Ayrton Senna. In reality we've had 2 or 3 (possibly more, my memory is pretty bad for this stuff) marshals killed.

I suppose the sadly ironic thing is the fence did its job in regards to safety. It kept all of the debris inside the circuit and suffered minimal damage, despite taking several massive impacts from cars. Wheldons car hit a post at an incredible speed, which caused immediate deceleration, and yet the fence stood up. A safety feature is what ended up causing the injury. :(

Author:  phil1993 [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

ellis wrote:
Whether it is insensitive or not, spectators, mechanics, marshals and other officials are never counted in these sort of things. The last death people talk about in Formula One is Ayrton Senna. In reality we've had 2 or 3 (possibly more, my memory is pretty bad for this stuff) marshals killed.


An Italian marshal was killed by the flying wheel of Pedro de La Rosa at the Turn 2 crash in 2000 at Monza, whilst another marshal was killed at Australia in 2001, when JV's wheel slotted perfectly through a gap in the fence and struck him.

Author:  Neil [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

Paolo Gislimberti and Graham Beveridge.

Author:  phil1993 [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

Will Power wrote:
"Racing on this sort of track is too fast and too close," Power told Triple M radio in Sydney. "When you are averaging 370 km/h and you are inches apart... It was a recipe for disaster in my mind.

"I had voiced my opinion over the last few years that when we run on these mile-and-a-half super speedways with high banking, it creates this pack racing. It takes one little mistake from someone and the result is never good.

"It is always a hard hit into a wall, it's always a big crash. The formula can be fixed (but) I am sure they will take a pretty close look after what happened."

"I have been running on these ovals for a couple of years now and your worst nightmare is to end up airborne and heading toward the catch fence," he said.

"The catch fence just destroys the car. A lot of guys have had their legs destroyed - there's been some pretty big injuries. So I thought, 'this is it, I am heading towards the catch fence'.

"But the way my car landed ... I hit the road first then went into the wall then I saw a heap of flames and I can't really remember what else. I was lucky. You just have to land the wrong way and it's all bad.

"Unfortunately, Dan ended up on the catch fence and that's what got him. It was a very sad day for IndyCar to lose a guy like Dan, a champion - it's unbelievable."

Author:  Stoegi [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

phil1993 wrote:
ellis wrote:
Whether it is insensitive or not, spectators, mechanics, marshals and other officials are never counted in these sort of things. The last death people talk about in Formula One is Ayrton Senna. In reality we've had 2 or 3 (possibly more, my memory is pretty bad for this stuff) marshals killed.


An Italian marshal was killed by the flying wheel of Pedro de La Rosa at the Turn 2 crash in 2000 at Monza.

I'm pretty sure it was Frentzen's wheel and not de La Rosa's.

Author:  phil1993 [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

Ah yes, my mistake

"However, the right front wheel from Heinz-Harald Frentzen's Jordan had been propelled towards the safety fence and struck 33 year old fire marshal Paolo Ghislimberti in the chest and head."

Author:  da_chris [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

electrodevo wrote:
Matt Clendenning wrote:
think of plexi glass at a hockey game. take that and make it about 9 inches thick....


That resolves the "cheese grater" factor but does not resolve the posts, which is where things can get quite deadly with blunt trauma. I would also be worried about strength (plexiglass can shatter on blunt impact) and environmental issues (some transparent plastic fogs up under certain conditions).

Some clever engineering is going to be needed for the posts. Ideally, it would be nice if a post could "break away" and dissipate some energy, without flying into the crowd, or having the fence collapse. That sounds like a huge challenge, maybe impossible.

If spectators don't need to view the track, simply mounting some energy dissipating material to the fence (eg foam) would help some. But there aren't a lot of good transparent methods that I know of that would do the same thing.

the material they need to use is a polycarbonate like Makrolon (as it is known here in germany). It doesn´t shatter if it is hit, and there are flame-proof types of it. It also won´t become blind for a long time even if it is in direct sunlight. One problem with all kinds of "glasses" might be reflections of the sun that can dazzle drivers like a mirror.

The blunt trauma of DW was caused as his helmet hit a pole of the fencing, or is that information wrong?

Author:  electrodevo [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

Alonsomania wrote:
According to CNN the IndyCar Series claimed 7 lives in the past 15 years.
That three of those happened in another championship doesn't matter.


By comparison, the 15 year fatality count in Jimmie Johnson's "ultra-safe" NASCAR is 4.
And if you count the supporting series (trucks, BGN, etc.) you also get 7.
You can also add 1 for NASCAR's brilliant decision to run the Sportsman series at Charlotte in the mid 90s, and 4 for ARCA during that time period, if you want.

The difference is, NASCAR has not had a fatality since 2001 in any of their main series. (The last ARCA death was in 2002.) And I'll give NASCAR credit. Back in the 1990s it did seem like NASCAR was not on the ball and CART was leading the way in safety. This is not the case anymore, NASCAR is quite safe these days. (Although IMHO NASCAR's been awful lucky that their plate racing hasn't resulted in greater disaster.)

I would argue that the IRL is relatively safe too, outside of the banked pack racing format. Since 2001 the worst wrecks outside of pack racing have either been due to poor decisions to run an event (Surfer's Paradise) or T-boning type accidents that are definitely harder to account for in a formula type design (Paul Dana, Will Power). Today's formula cars are definitely a helluv a lot safer than cars in the 1980s, so kudos to Mario and AJ for putting Jimmie in his place.

Author:  ChasKrall [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

Black_Jack wrote:
buster hymen wrote:


Thank you AJ and Mario.

I don't defend the IRL and its insistance to run a car with a flat bottom instead of tunnels to suck the car to ground more effectively, but regardless, Johnson being a shill for Nascar and trying to stab a knife into the heart of Indycar's oval traditions barely a day after Wheldons death strikes me as tasteless. Especially when he takes part in the "plate" shows Nascar puts on at superspeedways. Get off your throne and tell the fans that got hurt from flying debris in 2009 when Edwards got into the fence that Nascar isn't still dangerous with pack racing, JJ, you twat.


I don't agree with Jimmie in this instance. But there is nothing political about his statement. He is not trying to win fans over to NASCAR. He isn't trying to insult Indycar fans. He is offering his heartfelt opinion. Nothing more. He sees the dangers of the game and doesn't see a benefit. That's his decision and I respect him for saying it. For someone who is so often chastised for not being opinionated maybe we shouldn't jump all over him for finally sharing his opinion with us.

Author:  StefMeister [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

Indycar has cancelled the Test for the 2012 car which was scheduled to take place at Las Vegas Motor Speedway.

Ashley Judd posted this:
Quote:
I appreciate @IndyCar canceling my husband's test at Las Vegas track. The new car needs development - but not now, and never again there.




David Coulthard wrote in a British paper yesterday that Indycar is 20 years behind in terms of safety & that he had wanted to run in Indycar untill he saw Piquet's crash at indy in '92. Also said they need to limit speeds because ther is no need to run at 220mph.

Author:  Stoegi [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

Coulthard lol

Author:  bdog2924 [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indycar @ Vegas

Quote:
trippmickle
Versus will air the public memorial service for Dan Wheldon from 4-5 p.m. ET this Sunday. The service is at Indianapolis' Canseco Fieldhouse

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